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+--- Thread: Compare Heavy tank Armor to scout defensive system (/showthread.php?tid=1214)
Compare Heavy tank Armor to scout defensive system - Gammagulp - 2009-06-26
Well I think this skills are not well adopted to the tank value.
Scout: Lvl5 Defensive System of Scout: 50Hp healing/Sec and -15% overall damage.
Heavy Tank: Lvl5 Armor: -100damage of physical attack but at least 15damage.
--> Against lasertower: -50% till -70% damage
--> Against canon Towers lvl 5 maybe (when you reach armor lvl 5 first time maybe): -66%
0% absorption against weapons and Skills
The heavy tank get lessre damage, but the scout would heal 500HP over 10 seconds :wink:
I think that both skills are not well balanced between a 250Gold tanks and a 5500Gold tank. I think the defensive system for the Heavy tank would make the heavy tank even more popular :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Re: Compare Heavy tank Armor to scout defensive system - Dr.McNinja - 2009-06-26
I no longer use heavy tank at all. Dont enjoy any of its skills.
I'd really like to see it more like a 'tank' (tanking damage) kind of tank. But then there is the earth bot. Heavy tank doesnt seem to have a purpose.
Re: Compare Heavy tank Armor to scout defensive system - Gammagulp - 2009-06-26
I think the changing of the ultimate makes it too bad. Next to lowering the stun time --> 0,6 seconds at level 3
Giving the armor an additional heal would improve it a bit. To the ultimate I already wrote an extra Thread
[Scout +Gold hull "nearly" = Heavy
]
Re: Compare Heavy tank Armor to scout defensive system - TKF - 2009-06-26
Dr.McNinja Wrote:I no longer use heavy tank at all. Dont enjoy any of its skills.I'm playing the heavy less lately. The ulti sucks big time and you can never hit pros with it's slow firing start, they have a good time dodging.... Only useful against structures cuz they don't dodge. I think Exodus should rework the timing here cuz it looks weird when you move afterwards and the shots comes from.... nowhere
Btw in somewhere about the pre 8.00 versions, the heavy tank had a 5% damage reduction pr level skill. The earth robot has the 4% reduction ability, so I don't think it would be such a big deal...
Re: Compare Heavy tank Armor to scout defensive system - Gammagulp - 2009-06-26
Should be interesting. When a heavy tank with lvl5 armor meets a scout with gold hull, lvl 5 defensive system and same weapons in "nowhere" (no creeps). Who would win?
Maybe scout with lvl 3 rune carving produce an additional 25% healer during fight - also he builds his tower with about 2.200 Hp ^^. Then heavy tank uses mortars and so on. But if both fight with 3 basic magics i would say the scout lvl 15 would beat a heavy tank lvl 15. I should try out with a mate
(öhm... I forget the scout got about 40-50 Speed more than the heavy tank)
Re: Compare Heavy tank Armor to scout defensive system - Dr.McNinja - 2009-06-26
I praised the heavy's ult change before because in theory, it would take more skill to use well, but its just too hard to use to be useful (compared with the old ult or other ults).
Heavy has 2 benefits for which i may consider getting it:
- Built-in siege pack
- Long range nuke (stun is next to nothing)
Instead of changing the ult, he should changed the stun attack. There are too many generic stun rockets already. My version would be a giant tank shell that moves VERY fast, keeping the same damage/range/stun as it is now. It suits the tank more.
Re: Compare Heavy tank Armor to scout defensive system - horselance - 2009-06-26
Dont forget rocket + ulti combo. Deals really good damage at a safe distance (around 3k at level 13). And HT is the best way to deal with nasty tinkers. I preffer HT in pub games where at least 1 tinker exist. And early siege is hard with other tanks except HT.
Though in a pro game it is nearly total useless. Impossible to hit with ulti. Rocket too slow to hunt down. Siege is 2-3 use good and after useless. Heavy Armor does really nothing..
What i can suggest is remaking Heavy Armor and a little speeding rocket.
If everybody agrees with remaking armor than you can open a new topic for this. By this time i can think a good skill
Re: Compare Heavy tank Armor to scout defensive system - Althend - 2009-06-26
I like the ulti as it his.
Cocnerning the armor skill, it is true that it sucks a lot. The scout defensive skill is really good. (didn't i say the scout is imba for is price?)
Re: Compare Heavy tank Armor to scout defensive system - Prog - 2009-06-26
Can't agree to your complaining about the heavy ulti. Even in intern games I can play heavy quite well in mid. The problem i see (and allready mentioned) is the weakness of heavy against troop command on side lanes. The Buff I suggested lately in the dev. forum was to add to the current heavy ulti the old ulti in a shorter range creep only version, to deal with that problem.
@ Armor compared to defensive system: At first: I'm not sure, but is the defensive system really -15% overall damage and not just magic damage like gobo for example?
In general: It is, in my opinion, wrong to compare single skills. The balance of a tank is underdetermined by the single skills without their interaction in the context of the gametime. Playing scout with enough experience for lvl 5 defensive system is in most cases bad, regardless of the skill being stronger than a certain heavy skill in 1-to-1 skill comparison. At that time the scout has one really usefull active skill, the net. It has no skills dealing any damage, so there will be quite a lot of mana. The Heavy has 2 (to 3 with mortars) very usefull active skills which can deal damage, so he is low on mana most of the time. It is natural that passive skills are more usefull when the tank needs mana for the other skills, which legitimates the weaker passive skill of the heavy tank. Nevertheless the armor might need a little buff, like reducing the 'damage taken at least' by 1 per lvl to 15/14/13/12/11.
Quote:Should be interesting. When a heavy tank with lvl5 armor meets a scout with gold hull, lvl 5 defensive system and same weapons in "nowhere" (no creeps). Who would win?Even if the scout would win, what does that say to us? Nothing. Battletanks is more complex than just playing 1on1 tank x vs tank y. Heavy is way more flexible and usefull, for example in 3v3 in mid.
Re: Compare Heavy tank Armor to scout defensive system - Gammagulp - 2009-06-26
Well, mainly I want to give feedback to the Heavy tank armor. And when I found out, that comparable skills are better - no matter 1on1 - I think it should be buffed. Thats all
Re: Compare Heavy tank Armor to scout defensive system - Exodus - 2009-06-26
Prog Wrote:@ Armor compared to defensive system: At first: I'm not sure, but is the defensive system really -15% overall damage and not just magic damage like gobo for example?That's true, only magic and spell damage is reduced, but no physical damage.
Re: Compare Heavy tank Armor to scout defensive system - Morkardar - 2009-06-27
I find the new heavy ulti hard to handle somehow.
Maybe if you could click a direction and not activate it at your sight would make it better.
On the contrary I like the armor skill, it is very handy against ghost tank and mass creeps.
Allthough again the old ulti was better somehow, when driving in those bunches of creeps.
Re: Compare Heavy tank Armor to scout defensive system - batrider - 2009-07-22
I used to think tank armor worked and/or did something useful.
It would have been great laser defence. Laser does 80 dmg, minus 40 for the tank armor, is half damage from lasers.
But unfortunately, tank armor does nothing versus enemy tanks? Great ability!
Re: Compare Heavy tank Armor to scout defensive system - GooglyBoogly - 2009-07-26
batrider Wrote:I used to think tank armor worked and/or did something useful.
It would have been great laser defence. Laser does 80 dmg, minus 40 for the tank armor, is half damage from lasers.
But unfortunately, tank armor does nothing versus enemy tanks? Great ability!
not at all: It protects you against minions created by the demon tank, the infernal tank. Summons from the Guard tank and the Ghost tank. And summons from the troop command/adv troop command.
It protects you from tinker tower damage too.