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+--- Thread: rooted guardian is a building (/showthread.php?tid=2398)
rooted guardian is a building - DerSatan - 2007-11-19
the guard is currently (more or less :? ) discussed in the strategy forum (link)
so my suggestion: make a rooted guardian count as a building. he is just looking like a building, counts as a building in original wc3 (so its easy to understand that he counts here as one as well)
additionally (im not sure about this because i rarely happen to play against a guard) some spells like the shredder ulit return with an error message like "cant target buildings"
that would happen (everything while he is rooted):
nerf's:
-he is a target for building only weapons
-his healing aura doesnt stack anymore with other rooted guards (!!! if you have 3-4 guards the enemy must counter that with an exploder or will lose)
-he takes additional damage from siege attacks (mortar, treants, cannon towers, ?)
-becomes a valid target for the titans anti building spell
buffs
-he takes much less damage from an exploder (who is lethal for a guard)
-he is no longer a valid target for player vehicle only weapons (?)
-he is no longer a valid target for some spells (?)
-he is now repairable by a tinker (he shouldnt get to get any modules :lol: )
ok, overall it sounds more like a nerf than a buff, but its just logic and would be a very interesting tactical feature.
to keep (make?) him balanced some smaller buffs could be:
-slightly buff his natural healing
-make him able to detect invisible units while rooted
-slightly raise his speed (only 10 or something)
-start the treant spawning (interval: 20 seconds) when he roots, so you can count on them to appear when you root him
-make him invulnarable while he roots or disroots (?)
just some examples. i started a poll to see how many would like to "change" the guard into a building while rooted
Re: rooted guardian is a building - TKF - 2007-11-19
But again if you make him a structure classification, you can't hit him with bombs (6000) or artillery (5000) in ground only mode. If structure, air ship can't bomb a rooted guard? It will be lol then.
But on the other hand, he is a ancient, which is also a special unit classification. For example the mortar team could have a secondary attack could allow them to attack "ancients", which could be the guard in rooted form. I don't think he should get fortified armor since it makes him very resistant to normal troops, except the artillery. Also cuz the mortal team then wont do so insanely much damage against heavy armor type. Also I don't know if the mortar would do to much damage? Also other thing can be adjusted for "ancients" classification.
Healing stacking:
Solution:
Perhaps make the root healing ability to not heal "ancients" -> problem fixed
Problem with solution:
Unfair nerf; the other teams immobility due to many guards could be a reason to keep the healing stack ability. The other can go around them and take CP's. Perhaps this should be a root bonus.
Also healing doesn't affect yourself, only others! For example 2 guards heals each other. 3 guards heals twice as fast to each other. 4 guards heals three times as fast to each other. Also with damage share this would be insanely strong fortifications. but also high immobility too and small area weakness and in danger for suiciders!
Question: :?: I was sure the guard had 15% dmg reduction from weapons before, but I don't see that anymore. Has it been removed? (perhaps I misread or remember wrong, but I was quite sure he had that bonus in rooted form in older versions)
Re: rooted guardian is a building - Prog - 2007-11-19
Actually there is realy no need to do anything with the guards. There is a realy good counter possible, which is easy to play and costs less than 2 or more guards. If you don't want to change to exploder when your enemy got 2+ guards, than its just fair that you lose.
I dislike the idea that every strategy that someone doesn't like to play against should be nerfed, just becouse he wants to be able to play his standard strategy against everything.
Re: rooted guardian is a building - DOGG1 - 2007-11-19
Prog Wrote:I dislike the idea that every strategy that someone doesn't like to play against should be nerfed, just becouse he wants to be able to play his standard strategy against everything.Agreed. Half the game is about making the right decisions with your money.
For example, bombs own ground units. If you play against inexperienced players they will scream "imba" etc. But against pros, they just change to a sky vehicle and your bombs are now ineffective and you lose money selling them.
The only thing about the guard is it's ability to heal friendlies. 150/sec on 4 allies can be alot. Then again, the exploder makes short work of the whole thing.
I think the focus should be to tone down the ghost tank a bit (not too much). This tank holds way more power, and at times can be practically invincible.
Re: rooted guardian is a building - TKF - 2007-11-20
Actually I find the guard somewhat more superior to the ghost tank.
ps: your bombs would work on air tanks if you buy net launcher and use it on enemy air tanks ^^ but only for 2 sec.
Re: rooted guardian is a building - Exodus - 2007-11-20
Well, he's also more expensive
(even if it's only 500 gold)
Re: rooted guardian is a building - [BW]Mutley - 2007-11-21
DerSatan Wrote:-make him invulnarable while he roots or disroots (?)I voted yes, since for me it makes his play style more strategic. But the quoted change smels like exploit for me.
Re: rooted guardian is a building - Batto - 2007-11-21
Ofc, he will deal damage but will be invulnerable for a sec or 2 (dont know how long the rooting process takes...)
Re: rooted guardian is a building - TKF - 2007-11-22
Anyway is he's invulnerable during rooting/uprooting, he could just use advantage this to avoid damage in a short time. It will be to imba. I think not...
Re: rooted guardian is a building - DerSatan - 2007-11-22
that was just a small suggestion. not to be discussed in this thread mainly.
Re: rooted guardian is a building - SirJoghurt - 2007-11-22
Prog Wrote:Actually there is realy no need to do anything with the guards. There is a realy good counter possible, which is easy to play and costs less than 2 or more guards. If you don't want to change to exploder when your enemy got 2+ guards, than its just fair that you lose.
aha,then it's fair to loose..cause nobody want to change to exploder ? rofl...
it is funny to see, that the Guard is most time choosen in Team 2 after they got one Leaver... the Guy who choose it get's in middle, and starts camping @ Factory... with longrange weapons... very skilled... now just do nothing, just spawn the little threes, which make the Guard to strong. They have 1800hp.. when the first 2 died.. instantly the next 2 are spawend.. after earning some money get first Factory a Troopswap the enemy.. only way against it ? Do the same... this is called IMBA..and i dont see ppl. using Guard so much like in 8.32... why ? cause ppl. know its the Guarantee to win... nice :roll:
the Game is Called BattleTanks, NOT LammingCampkickotherforgettingmoremoneyn00btanks...
if League woud be played more..or there would be hosted some.. i would not play...cause you would have the fucking lame shit in every Game...
that, it can not be..
so.. get down the Hp/damage of the spwaned Trees.. its too much... then see again
it'S like when the Troop Command really was a bit to strong.. it was changed.. now it a good support for ppl. who like other tactics ^^
Re: rooted guardian is a building - TKF - 2007-11-22
After playing many times with the guard, I came to this conclusion:
GUARD IS A LAME TANK! :x :x :x
REMOVE the guard or fix it (It's a
SirYoghurt Wrote:LammingCampkickotherforgettingmoremoneyn00btank^^)
OR
Nerf the fucking treants! Give them less firepower and 3/4 hp! GRRRRR!!!!!!!!! LOL -R O F L- ! 1 treant is stronger than a light tank.! :x :x :x (You'll really lose against 3 guards, cuz the fucking treants rape you all if you don't go self dying exploder lamer which is lame -.- )
OR
AAAHHHHHhhhhhh.... unbalanced!
If you play against 2-3 lame LammingCampkickotherforgettingmoremoneyn00btanks, you understand their unbalance.
Re: rooted guardian is a building - DerSatan - 2007-11-23
even if you change to exploder, 3 guards will have the money for hyperspace (teleport-?) breakers to counter that. no chance against that tactic, anyhow.
one guard alone is well balanced - little weak, thats ok overall, but several guards is autowin
Re: rooted guardian is a building - Prog - 2007-11-23
SirJoghurt Wrote:Prog Wrote:Actually there is realy no need to do anything with the guards. There is a realy good counter possible, which is easy to play and costs less than 2 or more guards. If you don't want to change to exploder when your enemy got 2+ guards, than its just fair that you lose.
aha,then it's fair to loose..cause nobody want to change to exploder ? rofl...
aha, it's not fair to lose in chess when your king is threatend by a queen and you don't want to kill the enemy's queen with your bishop? rofl...
Re: rooted guardian is a building - DOGG1 - 2007-11-24
A simple fix for the guard is it "cannot be repaired by other guards (aura)"
Re: rooted guardian is a building - SirJoghurt - 2007-11-24
Prog Wrote:SirJoghurt Wrote:Prog Wrote:Actually there is realy no need to do anything with the guards. There is a realy good counter possible, which is easy to play and costs less than 2 or more guards. If you don't want to change to exploder when your enemy got 2+ guards, than its just fair that you lose.
aha,then it's fair to loose..cause nobody want to change to exploder ? rofl...
aha, it's not fair to lose in chess when your king is threatend by a queen and you don't want to kill the enemy's queen with your bishop? rofl...
OMG...what a compare :roll: