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+--- Thread: Suggestion: Rewarding experience in league (/showthread.php?tid=3135)
Suggestion: Rewarding experience in league - Althend - 2012-02-23
Hello ^__^
So my suggestion about the league point/elo calculation. I think it is not normal that if u win 1 game in league u get in top 200... (actually u can lose one game.. the 20th has 1493 elo)
So the start elo is 1500, winning games increase it and losing game make it lower.
What about adding a threshold rewarding experience.
For example, for each game u play, u win 5 elo point (that we would call xpelo), the max xpelo that u can get is 100. So a player with 50wins 50 loses would get 1600 elo (when it was let's say 1500 in the current system). The player playing a lot would have more elo than the newcomer.
What do you think about it?
RE: Suggestion: Rewarding experience in league - UnifiedDoom - 2012-02-23
Yes I feel as though number of games should be recognized to a certain extent, but I think the number should be 1 xpelo per game, not 5. (5 per game means you can have automatic 1600 after 20 games, that's less games than it takes to qualify). However I would like to see a change like this to be reflected on the "points" part of the rank so normal "balancing" elo is still visible, and normal elo still being used to "balance" the teams.
RE: Suggestion: Rewarding experience in league - Velocity2k - 2012-02-23
We could also do something like:
rank = current_points + max(0,min(50,(won_games-lost_games)))
All top players have positive won_games-lost_games. The "max" is needed if won_games-lost_games gets negative.
But i'm currently not sure if this is the right way. At least with this method not only the number of games count.
For the xpelo you could just use won_games+lost_games
.
RE: Suggestion: Rewarding experience in league - Althend - 2012-02-23
With your equation, the xp would not be rewarded. A guy playing 100 games with neutral score (50w/50l) would have : current point +50 ... The same as the newcomer ^__^
The win/lose ratio is already somehow linked to normal elo. The purpose is to dissociate people playing often to league and newcomers. I guess it would be disapointing to play a lot to league bot, having some fair stats and stil lsee that a newcomer is higher in rank.
RE: Suggestion: Rewarding experience in league - progg - 2012-02-23
i think this has to be analyzed well. there are lot of guys who played hundrets of games and are still very bad. buffing their elo this way will make the games with them imba.
RE: Suggestion: Rewarding experience in league - UnifiedDoom - 2012-02-23
(2012-02-23, 16:10:28)progg Wrote: i think this has to be analyzed well. there are lot of guys who played hundrets of games and are still very bad. buffing their elo this way will make the games with them imba.
That's why I said add the "xpelo" to points and not normal elo progg
.
RE: Suggestion: Rewarding experience in league - progg - 2012-02-23
(2012-02-23, 17:44:43)UnifiedDoom Wrote:(2012-02-23, 16:10:28)progg Wrote: i think this has to be analyzed well. there are lot of guys who played hundrets of games and are still very bad. buffing their elo this way will make the games with them imba.
That's why I said add the "xpelo" to points and not normal elo progg
what's the point?
RE: Suggestion: Rewarding experience in league - Velocity2k - 2012-02-23
The question is: Why should people with many games get a higher rank? The rank should represent their skill. And you don't need skill to play much games...
RE: Suggestion: Rewarding experience in league - Althend - 2012-02-23
(2012-02-23, 10:02:14)Velocity2k Wrote: We could also do something like:
rank = current_points + max(0,min(50,(won_games-lost_games)))
All top players have positive won_games-lost_games. The "max" is needed if won_games-lost_games gets negative.
But i'm currently not sure if this is the right way. At least with this method not only the number of games count.
For the xpelo you could just use won_games+lost_games
Because the new comer has by default higher elo than nearly XXXx% of the league players. I player able to keep 1500 elo after playign many games is not bad, he still have a positive score. Taking count of leavers/flamers/feeders on purpose, it means he overcome it to keep neutral score.
Increasing the elo on the maount of game should not create problem of balance since the xpelo is limited. It would not change much 50 best players but would much more fair below that.
First games in league would be like "tryout" game to estimate ur elo.
As exemple: the current 1500 elo player can be a average player who deserve his 1500 elo or he can be a bignoob/pro who can totlaly distrub the game balance.
Maybe this newcomer is big pro but I wouldn't bet on it. (i don't know the stats but i am nearly sure that a newcomer has less than 5-10% chance to be high ranked)
RE: Suggestion: Rewarding experience in league - GEN_Schwarzkopf - 2012-03-10
I agree rewarding experience is a good idea.
For example add 1 point of ELO for number of wins - number of losses.
This would be a small change for most players.
- Rob
RE: Suggestion: Rewarding experience in league - eSVau - 2012-03-10
I will not change ELO itself but i could think of changing balance and/or the ranking itself by a "experience factor" .
Something like (won_games - lost_games) + elo to balance.
RE: Suggestion: Rewarding experience in league - Smell.No.Evil - 2012-03-10
What about
New ELO = Current ELO * 0,9 + ELO [(won games - lost games)/all games] * 0,1?
(to prevent someone with a low win percentage to ruin the balance system)
Edit: Just saw the idea here already:
btanks.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=3135&pid=32906#pid32906
I didn't want to plagiarize, sorry.
RE: Suggestion: Rewarding experience in league - Prog - 2012-03-10
But there needs to be a very early threshold for any experience factor, or good players will have to smurf all the time. High elo + way more games than casual players -> incredibly bad allies -> no fun at all.
Now there is only the high elo factor, I don't think we should make the game even harder on our best and most active players.
RE: Suggestion: Rewarding experience in league - Smell.No.Evil - 2012-03-10
Just mentioning that experience sometimes is more helpful than just skill (and within should influence ELO rating).
That's why I suggested to take off lost games (to filter out the worst feeders, for example).
RE: Suggestion: Rewarding experience in league - Prog - 2012-03-10
That is even worse. Let's say I win twice as often than I lose. Now the more I play, the worse my allies will become, because (wins-losses) will increase with the amount of games I play.
RE: Suggestion: Rewarding experience in league - Smell.No.Evil - 2012-03-11
Assuming the current balancing by ELO you never know what kind of players join the game... but in my calculation the proportion of skill:experience is only 90:10 (i prefer pure shuffle anyway so let's meet at the qualify bot
).
RE: Suggestion: Rewarding experience in league - GEN_Schwarzkopf - 2012-03-11
Most people have less than 100 wins - losses, so an extra ELO for a win would be very small overall.
It would even be fine to get 1 ELO point for every 10 games played, regardless of win loss. In other ranking systems this is called "valor points", and rewards experience, or numbers of games in as well as deters from people creating many mutliple accounts, which is what is happening alot.
- Rob