Ingame Kick System

[toyboatt]

The purpose of the kick system is not to punish noobs. It's to kick out players that are actively ruining the game. This includes players that intentionally avoid battle and just move in base to allow the enemy to end the game faster, without the consent of their team. Anyone that gives up like that should be kickable. The current system doesn't recognize such behavior and doesn't allow a vote. This is bad.

Often when one player rebels it puts the rest of the team at risk, so they might wipe while trying to defend a CP 5v4 or 5v3. Then because they died, it is possible to kick the players on the team who are still trying, while the jerk whos afk-moving in base is unkickable. This is NOT the spirit of the game, or the intent of the system.

So we need a modification. What can we change without getting every noob kicked every game? I think maybe we should allow opponent team to have partial votes. So, for example, if my vote counts for 10 points to kick my teammate, then the other team can also vote "yes" (but not "no") for 5 points worth of kick. That way the decision still rests mostly with teammates, but in extreme situations where EVERYONE in the game knows some asshole needs to leave, then we can get the votes to do it.

No system can predict all the ways that someone can ruin a game. But to keep games fun, we need a way to eject players that choose to abuse the system.

Cheers,
roargasm

[Prog]

Everytime someone makes a suggestion for a "new" modification of the kick system it feels like travaling into the past. We had opponent team voting before. It simply doesn't work. Players are just so eager to win that they will vote -yes everytime someone decent or good should be kicked and vote -no if the to-be-kicked one is bad, afk or ruins his team on purpose. Sad but true.

[toyboatt]

Everytime someone makes a suggestion for a "new" modification of the kick system it feels like travaling into the past. We had opponent team voting before. It simply doesn't work. Players are just so eager to win that they will vote -yes everytime someone decent or good should be kicked and vote -no if the to-be-kicked one is bad, afk or ruins his team on purpose. Sad but true.

I realize this, but it's not the same. What I suggested gives the opponents no ability to stop a kick. Just like the current system, if someone feeds too fast and all 4 allies vote to kick, then that player is kicked. The opponents cannot stop this.

Unlike the current system, the opposing team could vote "yes" to help kick someone the system might overlook. Unlike older systems, the opponents votes would not carry enough weight for them to kick a player without that player's team consent.

[El_Polacco]

Kick System is bugged it should be opportunity to kick players who avoid fighting and weaked economy just not to be kicked.
Second issue is that only constant feeding might be punished It can't be based on it it's not fair to other team mates. Also i would like to propose to allow kicking tinkers after 20mins of game . It will solve many whining complaining on it because of doing imbalanced trying to take control points when tinkers are useless

[olivercamel]

To toyboatt,

For the players who give up and hide behind the tank factory waiting the game to end and without doing anything, the computer cannot tell which player is under this situation. So if you want to kick those players, it has to be done via a vote. But allowing the opponent team to vote doesn't help because only the own team can initiate a vote. And normally the own team cannot even starting a vote on kicking that player because they are not that bad. Even if the vote can be started, why the opponent team would bother to say yes on someone who already gives up?

Similar for kicking noobs, for a noob player, many people (I don't say all) wants the noobs in the other team to stay. So they won't vote yes anyway. Then why counting their votes into consideration? Or let's say a noob player is saved because all own team players vote -yes, but the opponent team players do not vote -yes, (for what I understand this is as you want), don't you feel weird that a player who hated by self team and liked by opponent team can continue playing?

Overall I feel what you want cannot be logically solved by your solution.


To El_Polacco,

> Kick System is bugged it should be opportunity to kick players who avoid fighting and weaked economy just not to be kicked.
Again as mentioned above, it is impossible to recognize which player is under this situation.

> Also i would like to propose to allow kicking tinkers after 20mins of game
This might be an idea to discussed by the dev team, but it can be also bugged. Say when you buy a new tank at later game, and switch to thinker first. A bad teammate who intentionally want you to leave can trigger a vote on you.


My opinion:
I think the current kicking system is ok. (Its trigger level might be adjusted but the overall structure is good i think)
The players who feed too much (no matter it is a noob or feed on purpose) can be voted to kick.
The players who afk long time can also be voted to kick.
For the other cases, like flame, bomb own base, block creeps, etc. might not be kicked, but don't forget you can simply report the replay and request a ban on that player.

I also don't like the players who give up and hide behind the base, watch mates to die and wait until the last minute. But in my opinion those players shouldn't be kicked.

[UnifiedDoom]

El_Pollacco, those wrecked economy weak players you were talking about earlier are the same "noobs" that toyboatt said should not be kicked. I request you call them as such rather than avoiding dicussion about the merit in kicking weaker players.

Anyway it seems like the problem toyboatt brought up in this thread is the ability, or rather in-ability to kick "moving -giveup afkers" which is behavior largely encouraged by the current penalty system. I myself will admit that I am guilty of this crime on occasion. I will say that I actively try to play out all of my games (even losing ones) to the end, for the sake of sportsmanship. However, as a human excrutiating circumstances might cause me to make the decision to become one of these types of afkers. That being said it's hardly any excuse for such behavior, and I should be kickable just like anyone else who refuses to play the game in the middle of the game. Olivercamel said that toyboatt's solution of allowing enemy team members to vote was a bad idea and I agree for the same reasons he posted. I would instead like to propose this:

-Measure afk time based not on tank action but rather weapon's firing (or something like that). If thats to hard perhaps a timer measuring the last time any creep/tank was killed by a given player. Althend also brought up the Low-APM based kick some time ago which I would like to suggest again. I would also like to suggest that kick points add up slower, so that someone who played well but just died like 4 times consecutively isn't kickable, but also decay slower so that 0 12 do-nothings(0-12 with 24A should be recognized as unkickable of course) are kickable since right now slow and steady deaths aren't recognized by the system.

[Saiyuki]

-Measure afk time based not on tank action but rather weapon's firing (or something like that). If thats to hard perhaps a timer measuring the last time any creep/tank was killed by a given player.

please note that the kick system isn't focused on league games. being a trader or a tinker at start would mean an easy kick with this 'solution'.

Althend also brought up the Low-APM based kick some time ago which I would like to suggest again.

this may work but can be easily manipulated by the players (to be kicked).

I would also like to suggest that kick points add up slower, so that someone who played well but just died like 4 times consecutively isn't kickable, but also decay slower so that 0 12 do-nothings(0-12 with 24A should be recognized as unkickable of course) are kickable since right now slow and steady deaths aren't recognized by the system.

it's hard to determine when a player is playing well. he could have died 4 times concecutively while defending a control point, conquering one or by feeding on purpose for any reason. the system is not able to detect such situations based actions.

[Teo_live]

I have been kicked out of a game I was going good at, saved 13k within the first 30 mins on a score barely negative. On the other hand, kicking semi-afkers is close to impossible sometimes. Then the person drops/sells weapons so we get less income.

The kick system is better then it was before, but it still is being abused and it needs more improving.

[Exodus]

I've added some debug info to the next beta, which encourages you to report, when you think the kick system didn't work like you intended it. With this (and some additional debug info) I'll try to optimize the current numbers and conditions.

[ThisSpaceForRent]

Thanks for listening to the people and offering solutions. We all appreciate all of the Dev teams hard work. I'm an addict to this game, and have around 600 games in the past 4-5 years.

Thank you very much!

[Exodus]

Well, there weren't that much reports regarding the kick command. But I'm going to show you the situations that were reported later and also let you decide for yourself, if you think those situations were handled correctly or not.
I just need to get through the replays first and collect the needed data.