2012-02-08, 22:54:49
To eSVau:
I got shocked by your response at my ban request - you have not banned rateng2, though you've banned 3 other players (including me). This is because of flaming and insult that I (since now I will speak for myself only, not for 2 other banned guys) have done towards rateng2. Yes, I flamed him and insulted him. But only as a response to some of his actions. Becoz if there were no actions done by rateng2, which motivated me to insult and flame, then either I wouldn't flame and insult him, or I would insult every other player in the game (as far as I would be a person who doesn't need reason to flame and insult).
So, the actions, which caused me to flame and insult, have taken place. But you, eSVau, didn't see them and did not consider them while deciding who to ban and who to not-ban. At the same time you have seen my reaction to these actions and you did consider them while deciding who to ban and who to not-ban. Well, nothing strange in that, since you do not watch replays, but only watch replay logs.
It's like if in life a thief stealing something from a woman and running away didn't say a word, but a woman which got stolen started screaming bad words. And after an incident police places woman into jale and thief doesn't get any punishment - because "he didn't say anything but that woman said bad words about him". It's just to understand clearlier what is not-punishing actions, but punishing flaming and insulting, which were caused by these actions.
So, please, either watch replays and see and consider all the actions done by that player (rateng2), and make your decisions, or don't ban anyone, as far as you have knowledge only about one part of game process (chat), not about the second part (the game itself).
And if you do bans considering only logs, then it's just wrong, because, again, you have punishments for one type of thing (insulting and flaming in chat = bad actions), but you don't have punishments for other type of thing (doing bad actions in game). And in this situation one can use this unfullness in rules to do unpunished thing, getting response from other players - and those players get punished for their response. It's exactly what happened. That player (rateng2) seized any bad actions in chat, but did bad actions in game.
I suppose it's impossible to watch all the replays. So, if you don't watch my replays, then don't ban anyone.
P.S.: Don't you think that it's strange, that 1 player got flamed by a few others? Maybe there is a reason?
P.S.S.: I don't know for sure who Almohead is, but thanks him for "covering" me.
P.S.S.S.: Velocity2k wrote this:
"I think i'll remove the ban in some days.
But my point is we absolutely don't want to punish you. We want you to behave in an acceptable way. If you can't behave it's your fault! And i don't accept having players flaming on my bots all time long...
Just think before you write and keep cool - it's just a game. Players should have fun playing instead of arguing and flaming."
- "We want you to behave in an acceptable way. If you can't behave it's your fault! And i don't accept having players flaming on my bots all time long..." All right here. Except, you then also should not accept having players doing bad things in game. Either accept both or don't accept neither of them./
- "Players should have fun playing instead of arguing and flaming". All right here. But we can't have fun because of stealing of kills, we can't have fun when someone goes for farm/kill when CP is under grave threat, etc. so in order to stop these things we do flame/insult. Otherwise, just tell me - you see a guy going from CP to kill, you ping, you write to come back, he still goes for kill, then CP gets captured. What next? Sit silently? Then how will he stop doing this? Flame/insult is a way of regulation. Even in society (well BT-community is a society) flame/insult was always used to regulate its members' actions.
Flame/insult are not used without reason, they are used to regulate something (exceptions are calling new-to-BT-person a "noob" and so on).
P.S.S.S.S.: I was paying attention to only this side of a story. I didn't remind you about the times rateng2 did insults (tome or to other players) himself. And in ban request I didn't write flame/insults as reason either.
If you don't want people to regulate other's behaviour by flaming/insulting, then give them other ways to do it (regulate). Atm there are no such ways (kick system is mostly useless for these purposes.
Btw, it's just a game? Yes, it's a game, but why "just"? It's our hobby. And hobbies are not "just" for people, they do raise emotions. If they wouldn't raise emotions, why to spend time on them. And it is a compliment towards BT, by the way. Another compliment is the length of this post.
Cheers
I got shocked by your response at my ban request - you have not banned rateng2, though you've banned 3 other players (including me). This is because of flaming and insult that I (since now I will speak for myself only, not for 2 other banned guys) have done towards rateng2. Yes, I flamed him and insulted him. But only as a response to some of his actions. Becoz if there were no actions done by rateng2, which motivated me to insult and flame, then either I wouldn't flame and insult him, or I would insult every other player in the game (as far as I would be a person who doesn't need reason to flame and insult).
So, the actions, which caused me to flame and insult, have taken place. But you, eSVau, didn't see them and did not consider them while deciding who to ban and who to not-ban. At the same time you have seen my reaction to these actions and you did consider them while deciding who to ban and who to not-ban. Well, nothing strange in that, since you do not watch replays, but only watch replay logs.
It's like if in life a thief stealing something from a woman and running away didn't say a word, but a woman which got stolen started screaming bad words. And after an incident police places woman into jale and thief doesn't get any punishment - because "he didn't say anything but that woman said bad words about him". It's just to understand clearlier what is not-punishing actions, but punishing flaming and insulting, which were caused by these actions.
So, please, either watch replays and see and consider all the actions done by that player (rateng2), and make your decisions, or don't ban anyone, as far as you have knowledge only about one part of game process (chat), not about the second part (the game itself).
And if you do bans considering only logs, then it's just wrong, because, again, you have punishments for one type of thing (insulting and flaming in chat = bad actions), but you don't have punishments for other type of thing (doing bad actions in game). And in this situation one can use this unfullness in rules to do unpunished thing, getting response from other players - and those players get punished for their response. It's exactly what happened. That player (rateng2) seized any bad actions in chat, but did bad actions in game.
I suppose it's impossible to watch all the replays. So, if you don't watch my replays, then don't ban anyone.
P.S.: Don't you think that it's strange, that 1 player got flamed by a few others? Maybe there is a reason?
P.S.S.: I don't know for sure who Almohead is, but thanks him for "covering" me.
P.S.S.S.: Velocity2k wrote this:
"I think i'll remove the ban in some days.
But my point is we absolutely don't want to punish you. We want you to behave in an acceptable way. If you can't behave it's your fault! And i don't accept having players flaming on my bots all time long...
Just think before you write and keep cool - it's just a game. Players should have fun playing instead of arguing and flaming."
- "We want you to behave in an acceptable way. If you can't behave it's your fault! And i don't accept having players flaming on my bots all time long..." All right here. Except, you then also should not accept having players doing bad things in game. Either accept both or don't accept neither of them./
- "Players should have fun playing instead of arguing and flaming". All right here. But we can't have fun because of stealing of kills, we can't have fun when someone goes for farm/kill when CP is under grave threat, etc. so in order to stop these things we do flame/insult. Otherwise, just tell me - you see a guy going from CP to kill, you ping, you write to come back, he still goes for kill, then CP gets captured. What next? Sit silently? Then how will he stop doing this? Flame/insult is a way of regulation. Even in society (well BT-community is a society) flame/insult was always used to regulate its members' actions.
Flame/insult are not used without reason, they are used to regulate something (exceptions are calling new-to-BT-person a "noob" and so on).
P.S.S.S.S.: I was paying attention to only this side of a story. I didn't remind you about the times rateng2 did insults (tome or to other players) himself. And in ban request I didn't write flame/insults as reason either.
If you don't want people to regulate other's behaviour by flaming/insulting, then give them other ways to do it (regulate). Atm there are no such ways (kick system is mostly useless for these purposes.
Btw, it's just a game? Yes, it's a game, but why "just"? It's our hobby. And hobbies are not "just" for people, they do raise emotions. If they wouldn't raise emotions, why to spend time on them. And it is a compliment towards BT, by the way. Another compliment is the length of this post.
Cheers