2007-08-28, 23:39:41
There's nothing I feel needs to be said about the first half. Onto the second...
Then again, why not just grab a Helicopter with an upgraded Iron Hull and a few light weapons? I'm far more likely to do something useful with a 2,500 HP Helicopter than a Heavy Tank I find.
One problem... This free tank (The Tinker) actually got someone gullible enough to buy that item of limited usefulness. Ability to destroy buildings is great and all, but we're not only dealing with the Tinker's buildings, we're dealing with the computer buildings and whatever new gear the Tinker decides to bring into the equation. While you're a bit short on change by at least 1,250 gold.
As opposed to on the Tinker's towers where you don't have to worry about being fragile unless of course your opponents have scrapped up enough gold for one of the well-known Tinker destroyers. But that doesn't matter much, as the Tinker (hopefully) bought nothing that doesn't need to be replaced for a while. Heavy Tanks/Guardians? They're probably in bad shape for the endgame. Siege Packs? Money down the drain, can't kill buildings if you can't kill the opposition repeatedly to actually get use out of the thing.
All you would really do with the aforementioned options is force the Tinker to change early. Nothing that really breaks the Tinker's game.
Helicopter reigns supreme in the cheap tanks bracket. And the rushed 4,000g-5,500g tanks bracket. If only because most people seem to think blasting you with nukes before their weapons (or lack thereof) actually inflict enough damage to result in death.
Just wanna point out that this is because Tinker CAN'T play the late-game. If he had to be bought like the other vehicles, you wouldn't see nearly as many Tinkers: one as a possible necessity early on (not sure if they're part of a "pro" game often) and that'd be it. Anti-grav, on the other hand, can survive a Heavy Tank shot, and adding just an upgraded Iron Hull gives him plenty of HP to survive on defense or multi-battles.
Antigrav, with... Iron Hull. That's a regret waiting to happen late game. Tinker can survive a Heavy Tank shot too courtesy of Blink-Dodge. With an upgraded hull, at full hit points it means the Heavy Tank will have to work for the kill even if the missile hits the Tinker. The problem is you spent 2,500 gold on dead weight. Hit points that contribute very little to your killing power, thus killing your growth rate and late game usefulness especially if an opponent like me takes advantage of that.
When I say something, I always say it under the guise you have a few decent starter weapons. Decked out Basic Magic can do the trick actually. Then you factor in your allies (often I just look at them as distractions and opportunities to cash in on a good kill) and how often opponents seem to love retreating from the field at 20% health, and I have more than enough gold for my purposes.
I'm talking about weapons. If you actually get a Siege Pack, all you did was throw away at least 1,250 of your gold, forcing me to adapt much like you did. Except I'll buy a tank and/or weapons that prove to be a bit more lasting. I influenced you to buy a 2,500 gold item that is useless for non-buildings, you influenced me to change tanks and/or build. Overall, the buyer of the Siege Pack gets shafted unless the Tinker is a newbie.
Ah yes, thanks for reminding me of the name of that ability. The name probably eluded me because the ability is full of suck. Unless some undocumented changes to the Antigrav occured since 8.23, the cooldown isn't as low as you seem to think (From what I recall, at least 2/3 the Blink cooldown) and the mana cost is roughly 70% of an equivalent level Antigrav ability. Save the batteries for when you actually have useful abilities you can fall back on like from that of a Frost Robot.
I daresay 1v1 my opponent is screwed if I'm a Tinker. Rush Heavy Tank? No problem, I don't mind if you throw away your money. I will continue to farm gold (and you) with a Helicopter while you wonder why you decided to make the change. The Tinker is the closest thing to a wildcard this game has. In those rare instances it is truly 1v1 for a while, I've yet to find an opponent that knows enough to stop me.
Game Hunter Wrote:Bad uses for Tinker:
- Late-game. Now Tinker stands a chance if he's got a Gold Hull (why didn't you get a HT though?) and some weapons, but he's not built for it. None of his skills work well with a gung-ho mode other than Teleport, and oftentimes the Tinker is too weak to be using short-range.
Then again, why not just grab a Helicopter with an upgraded Iron Hull and a few light weapons? I'm far more likely to do something useful with a 2,500 HP Helicopter than a Heavy Tank I find.
Game Hunter Wrote:- Anti-Siege enemies. If they start getting Siege Packs, back off while you can, because they're going to rip through you so fast you'll crap your pants. I've seen situations where there is a heavy load of Tinkers on one side: one Siege Pack and they crumbled in a way that it wasn't even satisfying. Heavy Tanks are usually included on this list, although you should be considering a new vehicle by the time they are.
One problem... This free tank (The Tinker) actually got someone gullible enough to buy that item of limited usefulness. Ability to destroy buildings is great and all, but we're not only dealing with the Tinker's buildings, we're dealing with the computer buildings and whatever new gear the Tinker decides to bring into the equation. While you're a bit short on change by at least 1,250 gold.
Game Hunter Wrote:-Inexperienced players. I wish there was a way to let people know that buying a vehicle is a good idea when you're starting out your BTanks career, as I've seen Ice Cannons on an otherwise-naked Tinker. It's pretty sad. :cry:
As opposed to on the Tinker's towers where you don't have to worry about being fragile unless of course your opponents have scrapped up enough gold for one of the well-known Tinker destroyers. But that doesn't matter much, as the Tinker (hopefully) bought nothing that doesn't need to be replaced for a while. Heavy Tanks/Guardians? They're probably in bad shape for the endgame. Siege Packs? Money down the drain, can't kill buildings if you can't kill the opposition repeatedly to actually get use out of the thing.
All you would really do with the aforementioned options is force the Tinker to change early. Nothing that really breaks the Tinker's game.
Game Hunter Wrote:Most of your argument rests on a comparison between Tinker and the Antigrav. I have my own quirks about that tank (it's just a weird cost where you can't get an "ideal" weapon for him, 'cause not everyone likes the Glaive Thrower), but if we compare the Tinker to Heli or Light Tank, things become a bit different.
Helicopter reigns supreme in the cheap tanks bracket. And the rushed 4,000g-5,500g tanks bracket. If only because most people seem to think blasting you with nukes before their weapons (or lack thereof) actually inflict enough damage to result in death.
Just wanna point out that this is because Tinker CAN'T play the late-game. If he had to be bought like the other vehicles, you wouldn't see nearly as many Tinkers: one as a possible necessity early on (not sure if they're part of a "pro" game often) and that'd be it. Anti-grav, on the other hand, can survive a Heavy Tank shot, and adding just an upgraded Iron Hull gives him plenty of HP to survive on defense or multi-battles.
Antigrav, with... Iron Hull. That's a regret waiting to happen late game. Tinker can survive a Heavy Tank shot too courtesy of Blink-Dodge. With an upgraded hull, at full hit points it means the Heavy Tank will have to work for the kill even if the missile hits the Tinker. The problem is you spent 2,500 gold on dead weight. Hit points that contribute very little to your killing power, thus killing your growth rate and late game usefulness especially if an opponent like me takes advantage of that.
Game Hunter Wrote:Also, if a Tinker is saving up for ONLY a Sky Tank, that's still not much firepower. The enemy probably already has an HT (with appropriate weapons) before your ST and is beating the crap out of your neutral points.
When I say something, I always say it under the guise you have a few decent starter weapons. Decked out Basic Magic can do the trick actually. Then you factor in your allies (often I just look at them as distractions and opportunities to cash in on a good kill) and how often opponents seem to love retreating from the field at 20% health, and I have more than enough gold for my purposes.
Game Hunter Wrote:I dunno, I'm not sure where the Tinker's power "exponentially increases". Are you talking about Laser towers? Siege Pack them to hell: it's a great investment considering they'll also be used on all of the enemy's buildings anyway. Farther teleport? If you're not ready to kill a Tinker quickly and efficiently by late-game, regardless of where he goes, you need some work on your early-game. Troop Command (and upgrades)? Every tank after (and including) Air Ship has means of wiping out Reinforcements in one shot, and the Tinker's HP might plummet quite a bit in the process.
I'm talking about weapons. If you actually get a Siege Pack, all you did was throw away at least 1,250 of your gold, forcing me to adapt much like you did. Except I'll buy a tank and/or weapons that prove to be a bit more lasting. I influenced you to buy a 2,500 gold item that is useless for non-buildings, you influenced me to change tanks and/or build. Overall, the buyer of the Siege Pack gets shafted unless the Tinker is a newbie.
Game Hunter Wrote:About Antigrav's "Blink": you've very right to put it in quotes, because it's not Blink at all. It's called Jump. It lets you move quickly and over terrain, and (here's why it's useful) has a very low MP cost and cooldown. Naturally it looks a lot like a half-assed Teleport, but it can be used over and over again, whereas another TP will take another minute. I don't think you can blink-dodge with Jump, but the Antigrav also has HP to survive the attack, so it's mostly unnecessary, as you can Jump away to the nearest factory, heal up, and Jump back while their missile is still 2/3s away from cooling.
Ah yes, thanks for reminding me of the name of that ability. The name probably eluded me because the ability is full of suck. Unless some undocumented changes to the Antigrav occured since 8.23, the cooldown isn't as low as you seem to think (From what I recall, at least 2/3 the Blink cooldown) and the mana cost is roughly 70% of an equivalent level Antigrav ability. Save the batteries for when you actually have useful abilities you can fall back on like from that of a Frost Robot.
Game Hunter Wrote:I've been in situations where a Tinker prevails, but it's typically with the support of non-Tinker vehicles letting me set up in the first place: two or even three mid tanks (neither or which are a bad idea) will shred towers if there's nothing else in the way. Troop Command can't be used instantly anymore, so that's out the window. Basically, it's a good support unit and (obv) requires support to be useful: outside of that, a lone Tinker will fall to an opponent that know what they're doing.
EDIT: Mm, one last thing. I think you're really complaining more about how the other tanks are less useful, rather than the Tinker being too good. Try to go more into detail about improving the Antigrav or Demolisher if you want...I could see some better things about them (up damage on that cone shot of the Demo's, widen AoE on Antigrav's Plasma thing). Those two aside, Light Tanks and Helis can probably beatdown most Tinkers in 1v1.
I daresay 1v1 my opponent is screwed if I'm a Tinker. Rush Heavy Tank? No problem, I don't mind if you throw away your money. I will continue to farm gold (and you) with a Helicopter while you wonder why you decided to make the change. The Tinker is the closest thing to a wildcard this game has. In those rare instances it is truly 1v1 for a while, I've yet to find an opponent that knows enough to stop me.