Buff Goblin Tank

[UnifiedDoom]

There is no expensive "smoke generation" item in dota (there is a similar item, but it is cheap as chips)

Are you implying that smoke machine is expensive? 3k is easily comparable to how much lothar's edge costs in dota (or are you comparing it to something else, your post is very vague)

nor does dota have any unnecessary invisable redundancies added to the game to make invisable haters happy.

Like what?

Yes what you are suggesting is different from smoke (barely), it is smoke + plus a bonus. We really don't need things removing the incentive for people to buy a smoke generator (there is barely any incentive as is).

You're wrong here. The "incentive" of smoke generator as I see it is that it can be used to achieve invunerability against people with detection while still firing your own weapons. The windwalk i'm suggesting will disable Goblin's weapons so he can't sit at a cp and fire all his guns while not being able to be counterattacked like the current smoke machine users can.

Also I happen to like Goblins 3rd passive skill is very useful, why you chose to screw up his useful 3rd skill rather than his borderline useless 2nd skill is beyond me.

I actually considered saying "replace the 2nd skill" in my first post because I felt it had no synergy with goblin's other skills, but the 3rd skill seemed to be more of an equivilent to what I was suggesting (a speed and survivability boost) and a tank with 3 different skills that all boost speed in some way seemed a bit redundant to me.

Um... I don't know which league games you have been playing, all the ones I have been playing Goblin tank is picked 24/7. The least picked tank by far would have to be architect, but the latest buffs he will get with mass converter buffs should change that

Haha you're right, architect is so under-used I forgot to even mention it . I don't play as many ranked games as I used to, but in the bt games I have played most serious players prefer heavy and thunder over goblin in terms of tier 2 ground tanks. The whole reason I started this post is because one player on my team was picked goblin in a priv game and I was shocked at how painfully useless it was, even at level 10 without tp.

He doesn't actually need the teleporter early on to be effective. (unless your up against mass-air, in which case I would poke a stick at your brain and ask you why the hell did you pick goblin?).

Actually I would say air units are the only thing goblin IS effective against without tp, and that's because you can use nets on them when they are over trees and drag them right in front of you. But even so just think about all the matchups, in mid it's a hopeless situation for goblin without tp, enemies are likely to have stuns/slows, and focus fire will destroy you. On the side lanes things aren't much better. Thunder and heavy (the two classic goblin victims) can actually very easily get off all of their spells before goblin get's off his, this means that you're very suseptible to being ganged up on, and if they have enough hp to survive both your spells (which any intelligent player would) the goblin is very likely to lose the fight anyway. It's a hopeless fight against Earth Robot and granite defense (or it would be if it wasn't glitched ). So really the only things goblin would excell against would be tier 1 ground (scout, light tank, and demolisher), and heavy can do that job much better (and against air units too). The only time a goblin would be effective without tp is at a cp fight, and that's going in via cptp. And even then Earth's enormous power at cp's (albeit nerfed soon) makes it a far better choice if the game is camp either way especially vs mass ground.

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(continuing post, I didn't like having that much unsaved text on the screen at once)

You could use the same argument for Demon tank, why save up for a teleporter+Demon when you can buy a frost for that money?

Yes but unlike Goblin, Demon does not need tp to be even just a tiny bit useful. You must prove to me that Goblin can be effective without tp before you can argue this point. (my claim is that goblin since goblin isn't effective without tp there's no point in spending the 6500 gold on the tank that could be spent on other stuff because you actually need a total of 10700 gold to actually make the tank useful)

It is a tank loved by many people (no one would chose it if it wasn't). I agree that Goblin tank should have a buff as his hammer should pass through creeps, smoke should be buffed for ground tanks so it is once again usable with Goblin, his cannon and W skill are up for a buff as well. But don't change him into something completely different and don't remove his solid 3rd skill. I like a Goblin-Tank, I don't like a Bone-Clinks-Tank

Keeping things the same just because they're old and established isn't a good arguement. (I've been asking for a heli-nerf for years, it's easily as overpowered as raider but noone seems to care because it's been like that for ages). My problem with it was that it was so easy for heavy tank and thunder tank (tanks that goblin is supposedly supposed to "counter" to just beat him 1v1 outright). Do you have any idea how weak goblin would be if the upgraded burst armor becomes mainstream? and it's already weak as it is.

Currently everything goblin CAN do is counterable. It's a tank that's borderline useless without tp and even with tp is simply countered by a 300 gold teleport breaker. Even if the enemy doesn't place breakers simply HOLDING the upgraded burst armor for 2400 gold (soon to be slightly more) is enough to make the goblin's signature "combo" basically useless. Because it HAS TO iniate with tp as long as the target is holding a tp and has enough hp to survive 2.5 seconds of dps (so easy with deflective armor and hulls) the target can run away just fine. Unlike other tanks that can start fights without tp and can chase if the enemy flees with a tp by having a tp of it's own, goblin can do nothing at all.