Buff Goblin Tank

[UnifiedDoom]

A Goblin does not sologank, unless one is well ahead. It is the best 2v1 tank in the (mid)game. You wait for a bad movement of someone, port and kill him 2v1. Or you wait for a teamfight in mid, port into it and turn it into a easily won 4v3. Heavy cannot compete due to its low speed and being not even close to the Goblin's burst damage.

Actually Heavy's burst is easily comparable to goblin's in my opinion. At lvl 10 heavy has (Q: 1200 + R: 800x) where goblin has (Q: 2000 + R: 1280), so as long as 2 shots from heavy's ulti hit, then the damage is only about 500 less, and heavy actually has the potentional to exceed goblin's burst if 3 or more shots of ulti make contact (heavy of course is naturally harder to position for ganks than goblin). You could argue goblin has an extra 1.2 seconds of stun, which could be the difference beetween the enemy teleporting out or not, but heavy's extra 1500 missle range could also make the difference. I feel Both heavy and goblin are very slow without speed boost, even with goblin turbo, but didn't you spend those points on riot anyway?

Goblin is also a tank most suited for side lanes. The kit is just not as good for mid because it lacks safe initiaton. Also ganks from mid are easier with air tanks. Well coordinated Gobo/Air tank teams can 2v1 opponents even at their side lane cp easily. Breaker are really not that big of a deal. They cost a lot and if your team plays well you should rarely miss them placing the breaker, so you rarely port into one. (in pubs that is a bit worse, because players dont notice breakers or dont write anything about them being placed)

Well every tank is going to do better with the extra money that comes from side lane you can't deny that. My arguement is that "everything goblin can do, heavy or earth can do equally or better." My point is heavy has a comparable burst but it doesn't have to deal with the extremely slow start that goblin has without tp. If the opponent has tp, heavy can still start a fight and tp after them, but for goblin starting a fight without tp is basically hopeless.

After a couple of successful ganks you get farmed enough to 1v1 anyone and the game is most likely won (perfect scenario). You have the optimal items already to switch into Sky-Fort as well.

This is true, Goblin does have the advantage of having a core build which is perfect for both Infernal and Sky Fort. However I think it's going to take more than a "couple" ganks to get as farmed as you say though, especially if your aiming for 2v1's as you said, you can't always garuntee you'll be the one with the kill. (Airships will usually have twice your dps and at a range too)

Because of the specific way the Goblin has to be played (or at least I think it should be played), Thunder is no counter at all. You might be fine 1v1 at first, but you cannot get those easy kills all around the map and will fall behind as soon as your teammates make mistakes (and they always do). Thunder has also absolutely no way to be aggressive against the Goblin. A counter is not something which just stays alive itself in 1v1, but something which actually beats the Goblin. Thunder does not beat the Goblin in anything, except that it is cheaper and has some room when the opponent still has a starting tank. After that Goblin and Thunder creep similarly. Goblin has better ganks, better tower attacks (those little goblins are safe towerkillers), better mobility, better burst damage. Sooner or later the Goblin will always be ahead.*

I'm sorry perhaps i was unclear, I was not pointing to thunder as a counter for Goblin, you are correct that Earth is the best tank for that. Most people in league however consider goblin itself a counter to "squishy(low hp) ground tanks" such as thunder, and that for thunder it is a hopeless fight vs goblin on lane. I was just pointing out that thunder (and heavy) can hold it's own on a lane vs goblin no sweat simply because goblin is so weak without tp.

---

That is all easily said though. Goblin is a very borderline tank. It needs the gold from ganks to get ahead. In a 1v1 farmfestival a Goblin has no advantage over a Thunder. If one tries to gank and fails, the tank falls behind quickly, because the damage output has to stay high enough to burst opponents. This is why a badly played Goblin is very useless and a well played Goblin is most often fed and snowballs. More so than the general "good player can do well with everything" this is a tank which only good players can do well with. Anyone can farm defensivly with a heavy tank, click the occasional stun for a kill and do ok, but to do ok with a Goblin you have to do more than just that. You need to exploit the opponents mistakes. But that is no balance problem, rather a result of the Goblin's design. Any change to make it somewhat easier to play will make it either overpowered, or be a complete redesign of the tank. (invis would be more on the overpowered side btw. There would be absolutely no way to react to someone ganking who you cannot see and he would be more or less immune to counterganks).

I agree with this observation 100%, goblin does indeed rely on mistake exploitation and map awareness to be at all effective. However my suggestion was designed to give goblin an alternate form of fight initiation than tp (so it could actually run away somehow, or follow people who tp out) and make it's hammer somewhat usable early on. I admit that adding invis onto any tank would be a very drastic change, and virtual immunity to counterganks is definitely an unintended consequence (though earth robot already boasts this same immunity). There is however also basically no way to react if the goblin ganks via cptp followed up with a tp (which is where i take 90% of the ganks would happen, if the enemy pushes close to an allied cp) so an unpredictable gank isn't unheard of already. Because the entire minimap is illuminated it is possible to see where all the heros are, but more importantly it's possible to see in the case of an invis goblin that he does not appear on the minimap, which is a signal for caution of course. I feel that a hammer charge without tp is the most blatantly obvious and avoidable attack in the entire game which is why i wanted to charge the nature of it since this tank is a "ganking assassin."