Posts: 435
Threads: 32
Joined: Feb 2010
Reputation:
3
Just remove it, it is WAY imba! It removes 60 damage with ZERO cooldown and costs 800+1600
Let's say enemy has 4 upped poisons. 4*4 projectiles with 100 dmg each, and this imba item reduces damage to 40%!!!
Both these armor items are way unbalancable because of different cooldown of the weapons. Just remove them!!!
Posts: 542
Threads: 52
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation:
8
(2012-07-01, 16:49:31)ssl Wrote: Just remove it, it is WAY imba! It removes 60 damage with ZERO cooldown and costs 800+1600
Let's say enemy has 4 upped poisons. 4*4 projectiles with 100 dmg each, and this imba item reduces damage to 40%!!!
Both these armor items are way unbalancable because of different cooldown of the weapons. Just remove them!!!
Disagree, it just proves that you shouldn't go 4 poisons anymore now. Also the armor is useless in end game.
Posts: 435
Threads: 32
Joined: Feb 2010
Reputation:
3
(2012-07-01, 16:55:33)RaptorXI Wrote: Disagree, it just proves that you shouldn't go 4 poisons anymore now.
So what do you suggest? Going laser? Oh fail, it has even shorter cooldown. Flamer? Gnaar, same. HEY, let's all use enegry torpedo instean, it has looong cooldown and as such also high amout of damage, so armor can't absorb much! (/sarcasm)
Posts: 542
Threads: 52
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation:
8
(2012-07-01, 17:01:38)ssl Wrote: (2012-07-01, 16:55:33)RaptorXI Wrote: Disagree, it just proves that you shouldn't go 4 poisons anymore now.
So what do you suggest? Going laser? Oh fail, it has even shorter cooldown. Flamer? Gnaar, same. HEY, let's all use enegry torpedo instean, it has looong cooldown and as such also high amout of damage, so armor can't absorb much! (/sarcasm)
Ghosts of Doom, Light Fantastic...
Posts: 485
Threads: 14
Joined: Jun 2010
Reputation:
6
2012-07-01, 17:13:26
(This post was last modified: 2012-07-01, 17:13:50 by LIoOoOoIL.)
i also think its "a bit" to strong(for it costs), probably make a 2 step upgrade.
First upgrade reduce the CD to 0.2, the second, like currently, "ZERO".
Gustave Le Bon "... Die Einseitigkeit und Überschwänglichkeit der Gefühle der Massen bewahren sie vor Zweifel und Ungewissheit. Den Frauen gleich gehen sie sofort bis zum Äußersten. ...".
Posts: 542
Threads: 52
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation:
8
I'd just like to see a new receipe with it because i don't like selling and shopping much...
Posts: 137
Threads: 14
Joined: Mar 2011
Reputation:
1
2012-07-02, 16:17:53
(This post was last modified: 2012-07-02, 16:24:02 by Teo_live.)
I made a few suggestions about mixing armors with mass converters here:
http://btanks.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=3368
(2012-07-01, 16:49:31)ssl Wrote: Just remove it, it is WAY imba! It removes 60 damage with ZERO cooldown and costs 800+1600
Let's say enemy has 4 upped poisons. 4*4 projectiles with 100 dmg each, and this imba item reduces damage to 40%!!!
Both these armor items are way unbalancable because of different cooldown of the weapons. Just remove them!!! I disagree.
Armors are far from imba, quite the waste of a valuable item slot. At the end of the day, 99% of the time I would prefer a much more reliable steel hull than any of the armor options. It is also quite a useless item late game (hopefully this changes). If your team has gone mass poison/flamer/lasers... then they deserve to lose for lacking versatility. Although I will say deflective armor is far more imba than burst at the moment. They should rescale the armors to be more useful late game (with a price to match).
Posts: 147
Threads: 18
Joined: Aug 2010
Reputation:
1
2012-07-02, 17:13:12
(This post was last modified: 2012-07-02, 17:15:13 by daCe.)
how it works vs laser?that weapons attack 0,1 sec with 80 damage
Wer aufhört, besser zu werden, hat aufgehört, gut zu sein.
I  my Denglisch
Posts: 542
Threads: 52
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation:
8
The upgrade may be too strong, the simple version isn't imo.
Posts: 435
Threads: 32
Joined: Feb 2010
Reputation:
3
2012-07-03, 12:44:29
(This post was last modified: 2012-07-03, 12:45:07 by ssl.)
(2012-07-02, 18:27:31)RaptorXI Wrote: The upgrade may be too strong
That's what I'm talink about, sorry if I did't made this clear enough.
@daCe: Easy calculation: It blocks 60 damage each shot, so laser will do instead of 800DPS only 200DPS. That's why I'm asking to change something!
@Teo_live: Please don't argument with lacking versatility! I could have say a laser, a poison, a flamer and a machine gun, and still the imba item will swallow over half of the damage dealt!
I think it just can't be that one (relativley cheap) item can block the damage worth over 10k gold. Thats like if mine defuse pack would cost 100g!
PS: What do devs think?
Posts: 147
Threads: 18
Joined: Aug 2010
Reputation:
1
funny,if any1 buy a laser,u counter with deflection.so he waste 7k 
Wer aufhört, besser zu werden, hat aufgehört, gut zu sein.
I my Denglisch
Posts: 304
Threads: 10
Joined: Apr 2011
Reputation:
2
2012-07-03, 13:00:05
(This post was last modified: 2012-07-03, 13:00:20 by El_Polacco.)
just remove it in further version till it would become so common used item ^^
Posts: 485
Threads: 14
Joined: Jun 2010
Reputation:
6
the items itself (Burst&Deflective) are fine ideas, since they give more variable defense possibilities.
Its just about, how to balance them right, and not just say: "Delete them in the next version"
Gustave Le Bon "... Die Einseitigkeit und Überschwänglichkeit der Gefühle der Massen bewahren sie vor Zweifel und Ungewissheit. Den Frauen gleich gehen sie sofort bis zum Äußersten. ...".
Posts: 147
Threads: 18
Joined: Aug 2010
Reputation:
1
hmm maybe reduce a bit the damage absorb from the upgrade(30/35/40) and let the item more coast.or create it new as a push item(when u use it,u will block 100 damage each shot for the next 5-10seconds)
its only a idea xD
Wer aufhört, besser zu werden, hat aufgehört, gut zu sein.
I my Denglisch
Posts: 35
Threads: 7
Joined: Oct 2008
Reputation:
2
I ve done some calculations testing the deflective on various items. I agree that is really OP at the moment. But i forgot to test how it works on two or more items:
What is the dmg that will deal to the tank against 2 lasers? My point is: a)Does it block 60dmg every 0.1 interval?, b)or it blocks 60dmg per weapon?
option a) dmg dealed to the tank should be : (80 + 80 - 60) * 10 = 1200 DPS
option b) dmg dealed to the tank should be : [(80 - 60) + (80 - 60) ] * 10 = 400 DPS
original dmg dealed to the tank without deflective armor: (80 + 80 )* 10 = 1600 DPS
=> if option a) nerf a bit like the suggestions you made before
=> if option b) remove it from btanks
Posts: 542
Threads: 52
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation:
8
(2012-07-03, 17:12:23)unpredictable_m Wrote: => if option b) remove it from btanks
it's b) of course... but finally there is a possibity to counter low range and u want it removed 
Posts: 2,503
Threads: 205
Joined: Mar 2007
Reputation:
17
2012-07-03, 19:37:29
(This post was last modified: 2012-07-03, 19:37:46 by Exodus.)
Well, here is my point of view:
(I'm already used to this kind of overreaction, if I really'd remove everything considered imba at one point, BT would be missing quite some content ;) )
I do acknowledge the fact, that the Deflective Armor is overpowered at the moment. My actions to change this won't be as drastic as some people suggested here, but it should help.
(2012-07-03, 17:12:23)unpredictable_m Wrote: option a) dmg dealed to the tank should be : (80 + 80 - 60) * 10 = 1200 DPS
option b) dmg dealed to the tank should be : [(80 - 60) + (80 - 60) ] * 10 = 400 DPS
original dmg dealed to the tank without deflective armor: (80 + 80 )* 10 = 1600 DPS
=> if option a) nerf a bit like the suggestions you made before
=> if option b) remove it from btanks
First I'd like to answer to this post. Just by picking the by far best scenario in which you could use the Deflective Armor doesn't prove its imbaness. By the same logic I could argue, that the Deflective Armor is useless, since it reduces the damage of the Titans Devil Explosion by only 1%.
Nevertheless, I did some calculations on how the Deflective Armor interacts with all weapons and yes, the damage reduction is more, than anticipated before. So I'll make changes to both Burst and Deflective.
The planned new values look like this (upgrades still work the same way):
| Burst Armor |
|
|
|
Deflective Armor |
|
|
|
| Dmg old |
Cd old |
Dmg new |
Cd new |
Dmg old |
Cd old |
Dmg new |
Cd new |
| 750 |
5 |
600 |
4 |
60 |
0,4 |
50 |
0,33 |
Also, the price will be increased from 800g + 1600g to 1000g + 2000g.
While I'm at it, I'd also adress some other points. Some people complained about increased performance problems. I have no real proof and it's just a guess, but I think it goes back to the Deflective Armor. There is a way to solve this (or at least improve it), but it's going to take some time, which I don't have at the moment (exam time). This is why I'm explaining this to you guys, so you don't think nothing is happening about this ;)
And the last thing: yes, there is going to be a blue print, that includes the Deflective Armor. Funnily enough, everybody seems to come up with the idea to integrate it into the Mass Converter. But I changed how the Armor works in the Mass Converter, it's just a magic resistance there. This way it will become better against certain weapons / skills and worse against others. Also, there should be no perfomance concerns with this solution.
I hope this at least somehow adresses your concerns, but feel free to give more feedback on the matter. I just promise you one thing: I'm not going to remove it ;)
This post has been brought to you by Sand - it's everywhere, get used to it.
Posts: 542
Threads: 52
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation:
8
About Burst: I don't get why the upgrade is so expensive and only use the basic version (all weapons it's good against do much much damage > 100).
Posts: 35
Threads: 7
Joined: Oct 2008
Reputation:
2
@Exodus: You still didnt answer my question mate. . Which of the two options is true about deflective armor? Guess none of them since I didn't consider the boost of armor at my calculations. But how does it really works? Can you make your calculations here?
By saying remove I didn't actually meant it that way :p. Just upload the correct map at ranked games at least without raider and deflective armor since they are unbalanced.
Posts: 325
Threads: 39
Joined: Jul 2008
Reputation:
8
(2012-07-03, 19:52:15)RaptorXI Wrote: About Burst: I don't get why the upgrade is so expensive and only use the basic version (all weapons it's good against do much much damage > 100).
The purpose of the upgrade is to specifically counter high damage nuking spells, demon stun, heavy stun, goblin hammer, etc.
|
