Acid Cannon

[UnifiedDoom]

Seriously can we just remove this thing from the game, buying it is equivilent to team sabotage. I've NEVER won a game with an acid cannon user on my team it's just ridiculously bad. Just watch this replay, my team goes from having all 6 cps and attacking the enemy base, to losing the game in a mere 20 minutes. (tank picks had a lot to do with that too, but that was the fault of the long-ranger he took all the gold from his teammates delaying their tanks significantly).

[ssl]

I'm not exactly sure why, but I agree this weapon is totaly useless. Maybe because 1300 range in lategame is just useless because everyone has fast tanks and porter.

[Prog]

I disagree. It is a very fun and often useful weapon in my opinion. Of course it can be a bad choice sometimes, but that applies to every weapon.

[progg]

I was always critic to lr but i don't think removal of this weapon will help.
Actually i've seen a guy raping in very late game (90min+) with acid canon and hunter;) He was in my team and we won that game.

[sebbedb]

There are a couple of fundamental flaws that make lr worse than other choices later in the game, and since they are connected to the design of this game i don't think there will be any easy fixes to actually make them equally good. The whole concept of having the price per dps rise as the range increases is based on the idea that when you have longer range than your opponent, you don't need as many items to help you kill him (hull, tp, speed etc) and therefore you have alot more to spend on weapons. this makes lr strong early, since buying those items (especially tp/speed) greatly reduces your amount of dps, and therefore the lr guy can kill you anyway. But as the game progresses and you get more money, the 3k for a porter doesnt put such a dent in your dps. You can buy it, and still kill of the guy with lr even tho you have weapons worth 6k less (speed pack). This is the biggest problem, and is hard to solve without making lr op early.
Other factors such as aiming (alot harder to stay in range of just your opponent with higher range) and the fact that you won't be able to share dmg as effectively (since you need to spend more on your weapons for the same dps, your hp suffers) also helps putting your team in a disadvantage in cp fights since they will have to share dmg between 4 players instead of 5. That's a huge difference since the amount of hp a tank has increases alot faster (in cost per hp) than the amount of dps you do.
These reasons makes the lr a very hard weapon to balance, and it will probably never be the same as the 1k-600 range weapons, and more for niche situations and for fun play.

[Teo_live]

Seriously can we just remove this thing from the game, buying it is equivilent to team sabotage. I've NEVER won a game with an acid cannon user on my team it's just ridiculously bad. Just watch this replay, my team goes from having all 6 cps and attacking the enemy base, to losing the game in a mere 20 minutes. (tank picks had a lot to do with that too, but that was the fault of the long-ranger he took all the gold from his teammates delaying their tanks significantly).

I completely disagree

The post is just too biased and seems to based on a few bad experiences. Acid cannon is a great weapon when used properly. Sure one person might suck with an acid cannon, but that does not mean everyone does. Also I noticed many "acid-haters" tend to blame their loss on the acid user instead of themselves. I also notice some of the clan-trolls that plague ranked games tend to be acid-haters... anyone considering buying an acid cannon should brace themselves for nasty flame and pointless kick/ban attempts.

[EarthR]

the problem with acid cannon is that by the time you have the money for it(min 45 and above) and you spend 12k on that weapon instead of inf/sf or even frosty iif you get teh money a bit earlier thats ruins the game completely for your team

[progg]

Yeah earth is right.
There's a big difference between playing lr early and late game. In early game if u move good u're almost impossibe to kill. In late game due your dps you're easy kill.
Most of lr users are noobs (yes). But playing acid lategame is hard thing. It requiers skill. Few people can do it. I also was acid hater untill i saw guys (two of them;) using this weapon effectivly.
True is that most of guys who buys it are early game lr bobs who think they can play it same like at start. but they can't;)

[ssl]

There are a couple of fundamental flaws that make lr worse than other choices later in the game, and since they are connected to the design of this game i don't think there will be any easy fixes to actually make them equally good. The whole concept of having the price per dps rise as the range increases is based on the idea that when you have longer range than your opponent, you don't need as many items to help you kill him (hull, tp, speed etc) and therefore you have alot more to spend on weapons. this makes lr strong early, since buying those items (especially tp/speed) greatly reduces your amount of dps, and therefore the lr guy can kill you anyway. But as the game progresses and you get more money, the 3k for a porter doesnt put such a dent in your dps. You can buy it, and still kill of the guy with lr even tho you have weapons worth 6k less (speed pack). This is the biggest problem, and is hard to solve without making lr op early.
Other factors such as aiming (alot harder to stay in range of just your opponent with higher range) and the fact that you won't be able to share dmg as effectively (since you need to spend more on your weapons for the same dps, your hp suffers) also helps putting your team in a disadvantage in cp fights since they will have to share dmg between 4 players instead of 5. That's a huge difference since the amount of hp a tank has increases alot faster (in cost per hp) than the amount of dps you do.
These reasons makes the lr a very hard weapon to balance, and it will probably never be the same as the 1k-600 range weapons, and more for niche situations and for fun play.

Excellent description!

[Teo_live]

There are a couple of fundamental flaws that make lr worse than other choices later in the game, and since they are connected to the design of this game i don't think there will be any easy fixes to actually make them equally good. The whole concept of having the price per dps rise as the range increases is based on the idea that when you have longer range than your opponent, you don't need as many items to help you kill him (hull, tp, speed etc) and therefore you have alot more to spend on weapons. this makes lr strong early, since buying those items (especially tp/speed) greatly reduces your amount of dps, and therefore the lr guy can kill you anyway. But as the game progresses and you get more money, the 3k for a porter doesnt put such a dent in your dps. You can buy it, and still kill of the guy with lr even tho you have weapons worth 6k less (speed pack). This is the biggest problem, and is hard to solve without making lr op early.
Other factors such as aiming (alot harder to stay in range of just your opponent with higher range) and the fact that you won't be able to share dmg as effectively (since you need to spend more on your weapons for the same dps, your hp suffers) also helps putting your team in a disadvantage in cp fights since they will have to share dmg between 4 players instead of 5. That's a huge difference since the amount of hp a tank has increases alot faster (in cost per hp) than the amount of dps you do.
These reasons makes the lr a very hard weapon to balance, and it will probably never be the same as the 1k-600 range weapons, and more for niche situations and for fun play.

Excellent description!

I can agree with the first half of that, Lr is almost OP at the beggining and fairly UP near the end.

However LR in can be great in CP battles when taking over someones CP. Sharing damage is not nearly as useful as being able to soften your targets before hand and providing what I call "LR support" outside the kill zone of AOE spells. However LR does suck in defending cp's no question about that.

Acid Cannon is one of those weapons that make noobs stand out as noobs, and pros stand out as either genius or insane. It is great in certain situations, but poor in others. Regardless it is rather unfair to have the item removed just because 1 or 2 noobs don't know how to use it

[eSVau]

However LR in can be great in CP battles when taking over someones CP. Sharing damage is not nearly as useful as being able to soften your targets before hand and providing what I call "LR support" outside the kill zone of AOE spells. However LR does suck in defending cp's no question about that.

In general you can say LR sucks in defense and has some use in offense. Simple because in offense you can decide from where and when to attack, maybe clearing out creeps first.
In defense you don't have that option, you can't move the way you want (well you can, but you may not make it alive ) and reduce possible targets by movement/placement.

Actually this applies always but has a higher impact on LR.

[Perfektionist]

longrange lose! longrange player are bad teammates. look at my RangeweaponNerf topic for a idea how to improve this weapons

[Teo_live]

longrange lose! longrange player are bad teammates. look at my RangeweaponNerf topic for a idea how to improve this weapons

The last game I played I carried my entire team with my long range acid cannon support (and it provided me the funds to armour upgrade them).

Your post seams to contradict itself, you say long range provides 0 teamwork yet you say long range is overpowered? If it provided no teamwork, it would be quite underpowered. T3-T4 Long Range support is quite underated and underused

[UnifiedDoom]

T3-T4 Long Range support is quite underated and underused

Honestly I don't think tier 3 (earth, sky, hunter, demon, frost) exists anymore since most people take those tanks directly from tier 1 tanks, where the tier 2 tanks (airship, thunder, heavy, etc) usually save directly for tier 4. So tier 3 is really just an extension of tier 2.

So I'm talking about 8.76 here, to clarify when I say tier 4 I'm talking about teams of inf/sky fortress with maybe 1 titan. Tier 5 would be in reference to teams of almost all titans with maybe 1 sky fortress.

There are really 2 reasons that I think why T4 longrange is terrible (yes it's terrible).

The first one is the skills of the two primary tanks infernal and sky fort. All of the infernal's abilities support close range combat, I shouldn't even have to say why. So the other option is sky fortress, but two of it's abilities (turbo boost, and bombs) can only deal damage at close range, furthermore even it's ulti has a max range of around 1000 so theres no reason to take 1300 over 1050 if you want to keep someone stunned far away from you anyway. Now you may ask, well what about titan? can't it use longrange. Well the awnser is simple, in order to use the ulti most effectively you'll still need to dive in to cast it on your team's infernals.

The second one is then nature of T4 and that's where the battles take place. In the games I've played, during T4 a full battle 5v5 will most likely take place not just at, but directly on top of a cp, this is just because of the design of infernal. So what use is a teammate who has a lower damage ratio than the rest of his team, and refuses (most likely) to actually step onto the cp and share damage with his teammates, and the awnser is virtually none. With the comparitively small amount of damage the acid cannon does it's futile to say "well i can harrass them at the cp," because unlike at the beginning/middle of the game enless like 4-5 players go longrange, the cp heal will easily negate any damage (and any enemy disable, nets, sky fort ulti, etc. and you're basically dead).

[Teo_live]

Well I will let the debate rage on without me for a while, but first I will list some final points to add to the fire. You managed to label all the bad points and none of the good points to using Acid. As one of the few Ranked players using Acid Cannon at least every second game, here is what I find works out.

Almost every game I play has at least one earth, sky Tank, hunter, demon or frost. "T3" tanks seems to be overpopulated with mainly Earth + Hunters in particular and LR is incredibly effective against these 2 tanks. LR is at a disadvantaged to Demon/Frost/Fortress though. This bit may sound a bit out of whack, but you really should not buy T4 Tanks (Sky/Inf) if you plan on playing Long Range during T4 Stage. These tanks costs way too much and will reduce your DPS way too low. You really don't need the extra HP, or even the damaging skills for that matter if you choose to play LR at T4. Arguably T3 Tank skills have better synergy for Long Range than T4 Tank skills anyway.

Yes almost all T4 battles are on CP, the disadvantages are obvious:
- You can't share damage so you will suck when defending CP's.
- Playing LR tends to paint a huge target mark right on your head, people almost always try "suprise kill" the weak LR guy.
- LR sucks VS air (You lose your speed advantage)
- LR sucks VS 1050 Range (Hard to maintain range advantage)
- Lower AOE skill damage during CP battles
- LR has poor synergy with your team if they have mostly mid-ranged weapons
- "Anti-LR-Die-Hards" will always call you noob and cannot be reasoned with. Many will try kick you or even ban attempt you (yes, even if you carry them to victory).
- Buying LR is always a risk, you may lose a game for your lack of CP defense
- There is no better LR weapon than Acid Cannon, so you cannot plausibly use Long Range after T4. This is unfortunate as it makes T5 a boring supercell-fest and I hope this changes.

Now time for the good news:
- DPS is not a disadvantage, since you spent more money on weapons than HP... your DPS tends to be quite high anyway.
- Escaping enemies on Low HP have a much harder time not being killed
- During drawn out CP battles you can attack others while they can't attack you, this more often than not leads to the LR tank being the "last-man-standing" and capturing the CP.
- IMHO over 50% of the damage from CP battles is from skills rather than weapons. Skills are not share-damage. Avoiding AOE kill zones provides a contingency for your team when attacking/defending CP's.
- Certain LR builds and styles (mostly invented by my insanity, so I dunno why some people copied them) don't require wasting money on teleport/speed packs to be effective. Even in late game..
- LR is a great alternative to anti-ground weaponry
- Enemies (especially Inf's) cannot get in range to "fake" attack a CP without being punished by your acid cannon. Every failed advance will soften them a little.
- LR has high synergy with your team if they are mostly Short-Ranged
- If nothing else, being LR is quite an annoying distraction for your enemy. They will quite often suicide to try get an "easy kill" out of you. Also they will waste money and skills trying to specifically counter you. If your team are evil they can use you as bait..

Titan and/or T5 usage of Long Range weapons is irrelevant, since there is currently no T5 Long Ranged weapons available.
(Hopefully this changes as there needs to be more options other than ye old boring supercell. Perhaps the "1200" range suggestions may come into play here?)

[UnifiedDoom]

No T4 tank? No teleporter? You've basically just disregarded anything [/u]that could make T4 longrange useful....

- DPS is not a disadvantage, since you spent more money on weapons than HP... your DPS tends to be quite high anyway.

This is only true because you took more creeps and kills than your allies via longrange. You do realise that this makes your allies more poor and thus the burden falls on you, as the richest player on the team, to buy a tank first.

- Escaping enemies on Low HP have a much harder time not being killed

And what if they escape with tp? You claimed in your post and in an earlier discussion with me that tp is not a nessacary tool to play longrange effectively so no saying "just chase after them with tp."

- During drawn out CP battles you can attack others while they can't attack you, this more often than not leads to the LR tank being the "last-man-standing" and capturing the CP.

You're only the last man standing becuase you let your team die covering for you. And more often than not your team will lose for that exact reason. Either way what you accomplished being the last man standing could have just as easily been accomplished by just being another standard player. Those fights are won by the first people that go in... not the last people that just hover by after and take all the kills/cp.

- IMHO over 50% of the damage from CP battles is from skills rather than weapons. Skills are not share-damage. Avoiding AOE kill zones provides a contingency for your team when attacking/defending CP's.

It's true that skills are flat damage, but they are compounded with weapons. It's easily possible to share damage without being caught in skills (especially now that chaos tp aoe has been nerfed). Tp can be used to dodge infernal chaos tp, however without a breaker it is indeed impossible to dodge the skyfort tp>ulti>bombs without teamwork.

- Certain LR builds and styles (mostly invented by my insanity, so I dunno why some people copied them) don't require wasting money on teleport/speed packs to be effective. Even in late game..

Enless you tell me what exactly these "super" builds of yours are, there isn't even any reason for you to mention them. Longrange can be effective without tp? I'd like to see some evidence. This isn't the kind of place where people "steal" strategies for crying out loud, Wupti made a comprehensive guide on the imba 8.75 raider.

- LR is a great alternative to anti-ground weaponry

Alternative to axe/bombs? Why just those weapons? Do you mean it's good to take it against a team of 4-5 infernals/titans? Why?

- Enemies (especially Inf's) cannot get in range to "fake" attack a CP without being punished by your acid cannon. Every failed advance will soften them a little.

This is really minor, I'd say only about 10% of the bt players even know how to do the fake tp. (if you don't know it involves pressing "h" for hold position and NOT "s" for stop). And what if they DO actually attack? 300 extra range isn't much of a cushion if you're gonna get smashed by infernals. You've already dug your own grave by saying you don't buy tp.

- LR has high synergy with your team if they are mostly Short-Ranged

What can you do with acid cannon that you can't do with supercell/physcho/photon bombs though? You still hang out farther back than the rest of your shortrange team and have them take all the damage. At least a midrange T4 can go into the enemy cp if nessecary.

- If nothing else, being LR is quite an annoying distraction for your enemy. They will quite often suicide to try get an "easy kill" out of you. Also they will waste money and skills trying to specifically counter you. If your team are evil they can use you as bait..

Actually if you go solo anywhere. Especially without a T4 tank as you describe you're just food for any enemy sky fortress. Saying "breaker the whole map" is an easy arguement, but how many people actually do it? I'd say close to zero. A sky fortress can easily just eat you during a teamfight taking very minimal damage and then going back to help his teammates.

[Teo_live]

I know I promised to let this thread slide... and seeing the entire post above me that screams with inexperience was bad enough (UnifiedDoom who has no idea how to use Acid Cannon, and self-proclaims to have never won a game with an Acid user decides to give a lecture to a devoted Acid Cannon player on Acid Cannon tactics... what the hell??? )

I was going to just let that slide and reply later with several pages (pointless as it may be...) but then I saw this and was completely rubbed the wrong way:

Enless you tell me what exactly these "super" builds of yours are, there isn't even any reason for you to mention them. Longrange can be effective without tp? I'd like to see some evidence. This isn't the kind of place where people "steal" strategies for crying out loud, Wupti made a comprehensive guide on the imba 8.75 raider.

What the living hell does a Raider have to do with anything?
Who said anything about "super builds"?
How the hell do you confuse experimental builds with a "super build"?
Since when do you need a "comprehensive guide" to be allowed to merely test and experiment with other peoples unusual play styles?

It is blatently obvious you don't know much about how to use Acid Cannon, or how to utilise an Acid Cannon teammate. The fact that you claim to never have won a game with acid cannon sort of proves that, but it is besides the point.

What is with the "I demand evidence" crap? About 50% of games I play I choose Acid, meaning about 50% of games I play I tend to avoid speed and teleporter all together. Yes some games the risk isn't really worth it, but most times it is a success. I really couldn't give a flying stuff if you find that too hard to believe. (if you played enough games with decent Acid Cannon users, you really would not need any evidence anyway... not to mention this thread probably would not even exist).

What an ugly way to conclude a useless thread. Yes using Acid Cannon has many disadvantages.... but it also has many advantages. So why are you selfishly trying to deny players/teams their right to choose this option? If you don't like Acid Cannon, then don't buy it! But don't try force others (including me) not to use Acid cannon just because you don't like it (and/or dunno how to win with an Acid User)...

---

Anyway here was part of the argument just so you don't say "you disregarded everything I said". With that in mind I shortened it down by disregarding anything "partially" or "reluctantly" agreeing with me. Also any posts with irrelevant assumptions get missed (e.g. saying XXX is useless with a reason, saying all long range users are poor team players, saying all long range users outcreep your allies etc.)

You're only the last man standing becuase you let your team die covering for you. And more often than not your team will lose for that exact reason. Either way what you accomplished being the last man standing could have just as easily been accomplished by just being another standard player.

Yes your team does die covering for you (and they also get kills from your generous assist-damage), but you provide contingency for them in return. A team of 4 standards + an LR at the rear has that last man standing who can make a desperation manoeuvre at taking the CP.

From a cheesy point of view most enemies would have used all their skills defending the CP, rendering them vulnerable to your range.

And what if they escape with tp? You claimed in your post and in an earlier discussion with me that tp is not a nessacary tool to play longrange effectively so no saying "just chase after them with tp."

Well I thought common sense would prevail here, I guess I was wrong. Unless you plan on facing a Tinker-Army at T4, enemies in general will only have 1 TP to use. In many circumstances this ability would have been wasted in an attack and thus providing the obvious chase advantage. This also enables you to chase at a safe distance.

For the instances that your enemy has NOT used his teleport (mainly regarding infernals who use chaos teleport), yes you may need at least a teleporter to chase. However you may still have a distinct speed and terrain advantage due to your agile lesser-tank ("Catching up" to teleporting infernal foes is sometimes possible when they screw up their ulti or have pathfinding issues)

Actually if you go solo anywhere...

This gets shot down straight away as Acid Cannon is a poor choice for Soloing purposes. It is a support weapon, not a rambo weapon and as such you should never be too far from an ally. To be bait you don't have to stick your neck so far out that any random Sky Fortress can easily dust you. To be honest... I personally find just buying Acid Cannon is generally enough to be classified as "bait", people tend to suicide like crazy trying kill the Acid-bob.

What can you do with acid cannon that you can't do with supercell/physcho/photon bombs though? You still hang out farther back than the rest of your shortrange team and have them take all the damage. At least a midrange T4 can go into the enemy cp if nessecary.

Supercell/Psycho Laser etc is generally T5, hence it is irrelevant as there is no T5 Long range weapon

But if you mean using Psycho magic instead of a Acid Cannon? Psycho magic is too short to stay out completely out of harm's way (many people have 1k weaponry more or less). Even if 1k range is enough to stay out of harm's way, buffer room is always nice.

Alternative to axe/bombs? Why just those weapons? Do you mean it's good to take it against a team of 4-5 infernals/titans? Why? ."

Again I thought it would be a little obvious, it almost sounds like you don't know how to use Acid Cannon at all (heh well I guess you did make an Acid-Hate thread after all). It is easy to use the speed/terrain advantage against ground tanks to maintain a safe buffer. I would rarely ever buy Acid Cannon against a team of x5 Sky Fortresses

Now before you decide to reply to this thread labelling everything as "ineffective" without ever seeing or trying it, won't it be a little smarter to get first get some experience with victorious games that involve Acid Cannon users on your team (aka team sabotage in your opinion)?

[UnifiedDoom]

What the living hell does a Raider have to do with anything?

I was using wupti's guide as an example of someone NOT being a total paranoid freak who thinks people will "steal" any strategies that are posted on the forum. He could've easy just dominated with the strategies he posted, but he chose to share them instead.

Who said anything about "super builds"? How the hell do you confuse experimental builds with a "super build"?

- Certain LR builds and styles (mostly invented by my insanity, so I dunno why some people copied them) don't require wasting money on teleport/speed packs to be effective. Even in late game..

You did, and they sound pretty "super" to me.

Yes your team does die covering for you (and they also get kills from your generous assist-damage), but you provide contingency for them in return. A team of 4 standards + an LR at the rear has that last man standing who can make a desperation manoeuvre at taking the CP.

From a cheesy point of view most enemies would have used all their skills defending the CP, rendering them vulnerable to your range.

And this can't be accomplished by a midrange player why? Aside from that this so called "desperation manuever" will be done the tower at the cp, not you. If the enemies put a tower then your acid cannon(s) can't even touch it. If your allies put a tower then they would've taken the cp at the end regardless of whether you were there or not. (Taking out a remaining low hp enemy can be done by any player, not just a long-ranger)

Well I thought common sense would prevail here, I guess I was wrong. Unless you plan on facing a Tinker-Army at T4, enemies in general will only have 1 TP to use. In many circumstances this ability would have been wasted in an attack and thus providing the obvious chase advantage. This also enables you to chase at a safe distance.

Wrong, Sky Fortress and Infernal both carry tp and another mobility based spell. There is absolutely no reason why they shouldn't be able to attack with one and escape with the other.

For the instances that your enemy has NOT used his teleport (mainly regarding infernals who use chaos teleport), yes you may need at least a teleporter to chase. However you may still have a distinct speed and terrain advantage due to your agile lesser-tank ("Catching up" to teleporting infernal foes is sometimes possible when they screw up their ulti or have pathfinding issues)

What's the distance beetween cps in middle I'd say if you draw a straight line it's 4500 mid and lane maybe 5500. Catching up to them before they hit their cp is almost out of the question in both cases anyway (enless they don't have speed or get severely creepblocked), and even if you do catch them,at their cp any smart player could easily just cptp back to his own base + it's not like you have a stun to stop them from doing that with your T3 air tank. Also it's often going to be the case that they'll have another teammate coming to join the fight, are you just going to walk right into him?

Again I thought it would be a little obvious it almost sounds like you don't know how to use Acid Cannon at all (heh well I guess you did make an Acid-Hate thread after all).

No it wasn't, you didn't explain it at all. You can't go barking out random positive points like "good vs. ground units" without saying why, my prior experience has nothing to do with this.

It is easy to use the speed/terrain advantage against ground tanks to maintain a safe buffer. I would rarely ever buy Acid Cannon against a team of x5 Sky Fortresses

We're talking about T4 here. The kind of range buffer play you're talking about here implies solo playing, which implies you would be food for a sky fortress. In a teamfight the infernals are going to be buffer-zoning you, they'll be killing your team.

Now before you decide to reply to this thread labelling everything as "ineffective" without ever seeing or trying it, won't it be a little smarter to get first get some experience with victorious games that involve Acid Cannon users on your team (aka team sabotage in your opinion)?

No I think I'll go ahead and respond to your arguements. As for experience, you're the acid cannon player, so I'd say it's your responsibility to come up with a replay that proves me wrong. I already posted a replay showing the average acid cannon user losing for his team, it's in my original post.

[Teo_live]

:-/ You're a strange one UnifiedDoom...

Personally I don't play frost-robot and have never won a game with frost-robot on my team. So naturally I won't argue to anyone about how to use frost-robot. Seems like common sense really...

You on the other hand have no idea about acid cannon and have self-confessed never to have won a game with an Acid Cannon, yet you insist on lecturing an Acid Cannon user on his Acid Cannon tactics???? Sorry for drifting offtopic but I also remember this strange logic of a while ago when you were commenting on my Mass Converter idea. You had no idea how Mass Converter worked, you never played with a mass converter yet you commented on my suggestions to improve the item as overpowered (Ironically, Exodus improved the item far more powerful than my small suggestion). Is arguing things without research a new trend or something?

...And now with your lack of research it is all of a sudden somehow my "responsibility" to show you a replay of the obvious? Um... you know what I really don't want to know how you came up with that nor do I really care at this point. You hijacked your own thread and I won't take part in it anymore while it remains silly.

Needless to say I highly doubt your "Acid Cannon removal" suggestion will be taken very seriously if you cannot even bother researching the item yourself...

[EarthR]

:-/ You're a strange one UnifiedDoom...

Personally I don't play frost-robot and have never won a game with frost-robot on my team. So naturally I won't argue to anyone about how to use frost-robot. Seems like common sense really...

You on the other hand have no idea about acid cannon and have self-confessed never to have won a game with an Acid Cannon, yet you insist on lecturing an Acid Cannon user on his Acid Cannon tactics????

btw i dont think you know what you are talking about. By winning a game it doesnt mean that you won the game but your team won it. i seriously dont know your accounts but if they are the ones that i suspect then that means that at any given game you are one of the worst players in team using the elo system so its only natural you have more skilled teamates that win the game for you. Just to make things clear try playing a game where you are the person to be considered the best in team and all your other teamates are worse than you and then use your acid cannon and see if you win anything.
Just because every pro/skilled player isnt trolling and actually tries to win games you wont see anyone buying that weapon. That doenst mean that he doesnt know how that weapon works or how to use it, that just means its a waste of money at that time of the game . Before trying to appear as an "expert" on a weapon maybe you should realize how the game works and whats the best way to win at any given time.