Axe and Flak

[BENNIE.FM]

I also think that it's maybe too much to downgrade inf's stun by 1 second. Even more because now it makes demon stun (y I'm again on this one) the longer with 2.5 seconds which is really too much because it's also powerful and long ranged.

Post something in the beta changes please

[Max]

http://btanks.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=4150

[Tez.Sick]

there will be a change for axe,flak,..... ????
it sucks like tinker and airshit,....
always same player use axe, fake inf stuns, beeing "flag fags" on lane,......

but this topic is about only-hero weapons and we need to change that weapons or create items against them
(porter- teleport breaker / mines and other invis stuff - detector / mass poison,flamer,... - deflective armor / feeder - votekick / ...... )

axe - also buy axe ?

[eSVau]

I would suggest five new weapons: limited to hit red/orange, blue/green, teal/pink, purple/grey and yellow/lightblue and since they are limited the must be buffed by whatever % compared to normal weapons hitting everything

I don't think axe/flak/aa gun/bombs should get that much of an additional bonus damage - actually those weapon are strong BECAUSE they are limited in terms of possible targets. No need for them to have them even stronger, both are too strong.
When they are "available" creeps are no longer a real threat, killing them is not necessary since they will not protect anyone anymore but creeps wouldn't survive any AoE anyway - there is no exclusive protection vs such weapons.

And an axe exceeds them all due the fact most tanks are ground and air can be caught by nets.

[BENNIE.FM]

Well i mostly posted this because axe really does not have a good counter mid game , going air sucks now you get netted and demon is so strong vs air as well as sky-tank seldom used and storm tank being so effective vs air tanks Flak is not as strong as axe was my main arguement because there are more viable ground tank options aswell as nets.Personally i don't think bombs and aa gun are that strong but i think axe is to strong at this point damage needs to be reduced.

[Prog]

I don't think axe/flak/aa gun/bombs should get that much of an additional bonus damage - actually those weapon are strong BECAUSE they are limited in terms of possible targets.

And an axe exceeds them all due the fact most tanks are ground and air can be caught by nets.

*They certainly are not strong because of the limits in targets, but rather because of the bonus damage. This limit comes with lots of disadvantages when defending cps (barricades bind you to the cp for a long time) and when purchasing the weapons early (because others can change to air). I do not think that anyone would get axe if they had no bonus damage. There would be no reason to.

*I think it is wrong to subsume axe/flak/aa gun/bombs all under the same category. I am sure that noone has problems with flak, aa gun or bombs at all. Flak and aa gun are pretty much irrelevant because there is so little air play currently (and I think you rarely saw them ever). Bombs are a less of an issue because a netted bomb player has no damage output at all.

*Nets need an itemslot which is definitely bad endgame.


Something that gets missed a lot (but you mentioned) is that the current endgame (and even the midgame since airship speed was nerfed and demon buffed) is very ground centric. There are more ground endgame tanks and there are deminishing returns in running more than 1 or 2 Sky Fortresses. Especially if you compare it to infs and titans who benefit from each other a lot. If the Sky Fortress is more prominent endgame ground only weapons will be a non-issue. Or, which is something that should be a long term goal, we need another air endgame tank to accomplish this.



Also I would like to emphasize a good atmosphere for balance discussions. It is certainly not helpful to use derogatory terms and ad-hominen remarks to strengthen any position. It is also not helpful to simply claim that "it sucks", without qualification. It also does not provide a good atmosphere ingame if you constantly provide passive-aggressive statements like some of you do.



Finally a side-remark: Votekick is not designed as an answer to feeders. Feeding is no offence as long as it is unintentional.

[Max]

Don't rage about fake jump with inf tez, people won't be able to keep doing that in next version coming

About axe there is only 2 solutions : make an item like nets for ground tanks (bring ground to air) or (if it's possible) when air tank is on nets, change weapon to ground tank (aka axe - after all, an air tank who is bring to the ground is... ground, isn't it? If it's not, well why does axe hit those tanks then?).
Because at this very moment, a ground can hit an air tank with axe (and nets ofc), but an air tank cannot hit a ground tank with flak...

[Prog]

About axe there is only 2 solutions : make an item like nets for ground tanks (bring ground to air)

If I remember correctly Exodus tried this, but could not do it with the wc3 engine to a degree that would have been satisfying.

[Max]

Well then there is another option : axe is really strong all agree with that. It's strong if it's bought before tanks - axe around 35' give you assurance to make a lot of kills.

I think this have already been discussed a long time ago, I can't remember : but an idea would be to add requirement on certain weapons...

---

I'm saying that because most of the time axe brings a lot of kills when it's bought early.

[BENNIE.FM]

Axe is just to strong lacks counters early to mid game that's the way i see it would be nice to either increase cost or lower damage,but i think i keeping flak the same would be nice as for bombs and AA Gun i have not been a witness or noticed it been used to create a significant advantage as of late. Think i suggested another air tank another 11-14k air tank or something would be nice.

Late game slows are significant if your having to hold nets but i feel that usually the advantage given early game usually means its just a snowball effect.

[Prog]

Another point of possible adjustement: It would certainly be a nerf to axe, especially midgame axe, if we made nets a little bit more expensive or shorter duration (needs to be enough for gobos to get close though). This would also help air tanks in general, which I think is good as currently ground tanks seem to dominate.