Balance the weapon formular

[RaptorXI]

Although i've been talking about this topic on private with several people, the best is probably to make a post here:

The common weapon choice has become boring, especially at start:
If you don't want to get flamed, don't buy now or langerange.
If you don't want to be the meatshield for your allies, don't buy glaive or bonfire (or just don't start under 900 range due to tank cannon range).
So buy a 900-1050 range, mostly basic magic.

Later, when cp fights and teleporters appear, switch to ice cannon, poison and flamer, due to their dps/cost rate.
Suepercell is still the most picked weapon in the end game (i wonder why somehow, since it was nerfed).

I suggest to increase the cost of weapons for the same weapon already bought by:
1% per player and
1% per team.

[Max]

Hi,

I have 2 things to say about your idea : first for game start : if someone get a weapon, next player will come to get it and it would be too much expensive to buy, then he will have to wait some time... It will be contest to be as fast as possible. When "bad" players will come, they will be fucked up at the beginning because of that...

And secondly : 1%, really? For a basic it makes it cost 1122 instead of 1111. This changes nothing. This should be maybe 1% for starting weapons (no big handicap at the beginning) and increases with weapons prices, like 10% for supercell (I take back your example) : makes it 27500 instead of 25000, which isn't a huge gap after 1h30 of game.

But do you think this will change players gameplay? They'll all wait 10 sec to get their usual weapons. And if they don't, let's say they get short range (glaive or something else), they would get hard time if they face a fast guy who got his 1k range the normal price.

My english is still not that good, but I think you understood me?

I would keep the idea for more expensive weapons, maybe not for starting ones.

[RaptorXI]

I do understand your English.

If you might have experienced, the start is the fundament of any game. Uneless you want to fall behind by feeding or not creeping, play from a (half-way) safe range. That't why no one buys those early.

About that increased cost:
10 gold for a 2nd basic magic is not that much, agreed, but the growth is exponential. And I'm not alking about someone who buys 1 or 2 weapons of the same kind, rather talking about a mass weapons. Every start looks similar to me because all play from a range that easy to handle.

What would be your calculation for:
- 5 players
- each one buying supercell 4 times
- increased cost as i suggest
?

Besides that the gold effect still can be little in your opinion, after 10k+ games and playing this map for 8-9 years i've also experienced a psychological effect when something has been changed ("it is weaker now => it sucks"). My intention is to encourage players to try out the other weapons avaible at the shops.

[Prog]

Although i've been talking about this topic on private with several people, the best is probably to make a post here:

The common weapon choice has become boring, especially at start:
If you don't want to get flamed, don't buy now or langerange.
If you don't want to be the meatshield for your allies, don't buy glaive or bonfire (or just don't start under 900 range due to tank cannon range).
So buy a 900-1050 range, mostly basic magic.

Later, when cp fights and teleporters appear, switch to ice cannon, poison and flamer, due to their dps/cost rate.
Suepercell is still the most picked weapon in the end game (i wonder why somehow, since it was nerfed).

I suggest to increase the cost of weapons for the same weapon already bought by:
1% per player and
1% per team.

The real problem I see is that people flame someone for buying bow or longrange. This flaming should be punished more severly.



Generally it is a bad idea to make itemcosts dynamic based on the number of the same item (type) already in the game. In a pub pickup game it would mean either:
1) that everyone in the own team fights to get weapon x first, which brings new flame-potential. E.g. player 1 grabs supercell first and somehow dies after this a couple of times. Player 2 starts to flame player 1, because he also wanted supercell and would obviously (in his view) have done much better with it, but he has to wait longer now; or
2) that the gold increase is so small that there is barely any effect.

[RaptorXI]

The real problem I see is that people flame someone for buying bow or longrange. This flaming should be punished more severly.

I agree with this, but in my opinion always the same is very boring.


Unless playing for fun, i will always buy the more promising item and no top player can claim to do different. Playing for fun means not caring for win or lose, not recommended for intern/ranked/pro games, whatever they are called.
I would all up to increase that % nerf if 1% isn't enough.

Generally it is a bad idea to make itemcosts dynamic based on the number of the same item (type) already in the game. In a pub pickup game it would mean either:
1) that everyone in the own team fights to get weapon x first, which brings new flame-potential. E.g. player 1 grabs supercell first and somehow dies after this a couple of times. Player 2 starts to flame player 1, because he also wanted supercell and would obviously (in his view) have done much better with it, but he has to wait longer now; or
2) that the gold increase is so small that there is barely any effect.

That's why this topic exists. From what i see from the ranked games, all start builds look the same. If you have to wait longer to get a weapon, one might consider to buy another weapon. To stay at your example, player 2 might buy a psycho laser instead of supercell.

[AeroniumX]

I was kinda disappointed reading this, I thought it was a discussion about changing the dps for different range weapons, instead its about 1% increase for buying item every time. Took a while until I did understand that.

I find the idea of increase the cost of same item by 1% for each purchase complicated and I think its a bad idea. More interesting would be changing the damage calculation imo.

Here's my suggestion to balance the weapon formular a bit at start.
It would be interesting to reduce the range of all starter weapons by 50-200 perhaps, and adjust damage according to that, keeping bonfire and glaive at their current ranges, a basic magic with 777 or 888 range range and fireball and plasma guns at 900 range perhaps. Currently basic has a little more range than 950 weapons. Also molotov have 950 range, all start weapons has that range so its a boring mid range standard only deviated by long range bombarding rocket and torpedoes. Electro cannon with 1050 range only scouts and tinker option.

Also most tanks only have tank cannon with 900 range, giving more tanks a different range, or some tanks the ability to swap tank cannon ranges would be more interesting. Goblin tank and shredder maybe 700 range tank cannon alternative and increase damage. Some other tanks could have 1000 range tank cannons and somewhat lower dps. Only tank which has an interesting tank cannon is the storm tank, I think we should add more tanks with such options.

[eSVau]

I would rather like to see a limited supply of weapons, e.g. three basic magics and some time for resupply those shop items to force weapon diversity

[RaptorXI]

I was kinda disappointed reading this, I thought it was a discussion about changing the dps for different range weapons, instead its about 1% increase for buying item every time. Took a while until I did understand that.

I find the idea of increase the cost of same item by 1% for each purchase complicated and I think its a bad idea. More interesting would be changing the damage calculation imo.

Here's my suggestion to balance the weapon formular a bit at start.
It would be interesting to reduce the range of all starter weapons by 50-200 perhaps, and adjust damage according to that, keeping bonfire and glaive at their current ranges, a basic magic with 777 or 888 range range and fireball and plasma guns at 900 range perhaps. Currently basic has a little more range than 950 weapons. Also molotov have 950 range, all start weapons has that range so its a boring mid range standard only deviated by long range bombarding rocket and torpedoes. Electro cannon with 1050 range only scouts and tinker option.

Also most tanks only have tank cannon with 900 range, giving more tanks a different range, or some tanks the ability to swap tank cannon ranges would be more interesting. Goblin tank and shredder maybe 700 range tank cannon alternative and increase damage. Some other tanks could have 1000 range tank cannons and somewhat lower dps. Only tank which has an interesting tank cannon is the storm tank, I think we should add more tanks with such options.

Again, that's why i want to nerf mass weapons. Making tank cannon more indidivual is an interesting, but would be enough to make some weapons more attractive?

I would rather like to see a limited supply of weapons, e.g. three basic magics and some time for resupply those shop items to force weapon diversity

I don't see why people shouldn't buy Psycho Laser, Death Magic, Souls Stone or some of the weapons i see 1 or 2 times in 100 games. More time to resupply sounds promising.