Tinker needs to go. I've been playing less and less BTanks the last few weeks, and it's because I like to play mid. And since the last tinker buff mid has been SOOOOO boring. Usually at least one tinker on each team, sometimes two. Less aggression and fewer chain nukes/stuns means fewer kills and less exp mid. It used to be that I could keep up with the lanes just by playing smart position mid and getting some kills. Now, I just stay behind creep waves while mid plays dual tower defense.
Tinker is NOT FUN. Tinker is not a TEAM TANK. Tinker is a tower defense in the middle of a team game. Remakes only make him feed or make him OP. Both are bad. The fact is that a strong tower skill is what ruins the fun mid, so unless you take that from tinker it will always be bad. Even if he is somehow perfectly balanced for power, he will still be a very un-fun tank to play with or against.
Remove Tinker +1
Let us ban guard also because people don't know how to play it and that most of the people who are using guard are just rooting and doing nothing which results in feed. -.-
(2011-05-17, 16:47:02)Tynkywinky Wrote: [ -> ]Let us ban guard also because people don't know how to play it and that most of the people who are using guard are just rooting and doing nothing which results in feed. -.-
Let's ban Tynkywinky cause he want to ban guard and everyone knows that this tanks exists only to love me!!!!
(2011-05-17, 18:13:01)Althend Wrote: [ -> ] (2011-05-17, 16:47:02)Tynkywinky Wrote: [ -> ]Let us ban guard also because people don't know how to play it and that most of the people who are using guard are just rooting and doing nothing which results in feed. -.-
Let's ban Tynkywinky cause he want to ban guard and everyone knows that this tanks exists only to love me!!!!
Or what about banning all tanks because there are obviously boobs who doesn't know how to use any of them -.-
(2011-05-17, 19:16:43)Tynkywinky Wrote: [ -> ] (2011-05-17, 18:13:01)Althend Wrote: [ -> ] (2011-05-17, 16:47:02)Tynkywinky Wrote: [ -> ]Let us ban guard also because people don't know how to play it and that most of the people who are using guard are just rooting and doing nothing which results in feed. -.-
Let's ban Tynkywinky cause he want to ban guard and everyone knows that this tanks exists only to love me!!!!
Or what about banning all tanks because there are obviously boobs who doesn't know how to use any of them -.-
imho enable tinker only instead of the league mode - was a funny mode ^^
Why not just disable Tinker for the first 5 minutes? Or just for the first pick? I'm all in for that, because tinker just sucks - no pro would seriously consider playing tinker if he wants to win.
Dont get me wrong, I got no problem with people playing bad, but the problem comes after that - when they get kickvoted for that, when the team blames them for losing and so on.
I also think that tinker was at least a bit interesting before the scout was introduced. But now that there is such a cheap tank which is perfect for creeping and can even pick longrange at start, there just is no reason to start out with tinker anymore.
In all my years of BT gaming I've actually never seen anyone playing tinker and winning because of that (their team may still win, but the tinker was never the best in the team). And please don't say something about longrange players - if you get killed by them, just get a porter and see how much longrange sucks.
Cheers
(2011-05-18, 10:26:50)griffin1987 Wrote: [ -> ]Why not just disable Tinker for the first 5 minutes? Or just for the first pick? I'm all in for that, because tinker just sucks - no pro would seriously consider playing tinker if he wants to win.
Dont get me wrong, I got no problem with people playing bad, but the problem comes after that - when they get kickvoted for that, when the team blames them for losing and so on.
I also think that tinker was at least a bit interesting before the scout was introduced. But now that there is such a cheap tank which is perfect for creeping and can even pick longrange at start, there just is no reason to start out with tinker anymore.
In all my years of BT gaming I've actually never seen anyone playing tinker and winning because of that (their team may still win, but the tinker was never the best in the team). And please don't say something about longrange players - if you get killed by them, just get a porter and see how much longrange sucks.
Cheers
Disable it the first 5 minutes is like removing it, not quite the same but still similar.
When people have bought a tank then there is no reason to buy tinker at the 5 minute mark which also will result in gold loss.
(2011-05-18, 10:26:50)griffin1987 Wrote: [ -> ]In all my years of BT gaming I've actually never seen anyone playing tinker and winning because of that (their team may still win, but the tinker was never the best in the team). And please don't say something about longrange players - if you get killed by them, just get a porter and see how much longrange sucks.
Then watch this replay, I played with tinker just for u, just before <3
Player: SelenaGomez
and it's a league ranked game: proof:
http://league.btanks.net/game.php?gameid=15081
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attachment=1074]
Tinker is not bad at all. It's a free tank -.-
Allied heroes can hide behind towers. The towers are useful to push enemy back and energy torpodo can be used to force the enemies to buy a hull so they get bigger tanks later.
Okay, watched it. Enemy team in mid sucks. Dafr43k isn't creeping enough and typing too much in start, chill_much moves like a granny, and kalleauskoeln doesnt know how to use his range either getting too close to creeps or to your energy torpedo or not even trying to kill. Oh, and after one stunned you they just ran away with full hp...
5 mins and still noone has a hull or a second wep... its onlay around 7 mins they start to get hulls, and even iron hulls at that... And if wzup_kaeso10ast went to mid with his demolisher and skilled catapult he could have probably killed you at least every 2nd or 3rd shot (seeing as you skilled tp).
Of course you can farm noobs even with a tinker, or win against a team without any teamplay. But the real question should be: Can a tinker be played equal to another tank, both being played by players of more or less the same skill level?
And: How does it influence who wins? The only thing i've seen so far is that it makes the game slower and more prolonged, bearing a disadvantage for the team with the tinker, or, if the enemies are noob enough, for them because they're being farmed with longrange.
Anyway, thanks for the replay
It's all about teamwork. A good team with a tinker will ofc try to defend the tinker towers from being crushed and let him establish a defense line. Since the towers is more fragile, its harder to keep them alive if being focused.
However tinker is helpless if enemy teamwork him down and doesn't get help. Most players don't like the tinker on their team which is a problem and blames the tinker for a bad choice when his tower get down by 2 or 3 players without aiding the tinker from losing his towers.
Scout sucks more vs tinker towers than any other tanks imo due to the creep cannon cannot harm tinker or towers (and bombarding doesn't help much vs towers). Scouts creep well, but tinker towers usually does a good job preventing scouts from pushing.
Towers hp has been nerfed, so tinker towers will have problem vs stronger tanks. Tinker isn't a direct combat like, and just as the architect, those tanks provide special gameplay which makes the map more varied.
As for me I find it boring if tinker will be removed.
If a tinker wins the game for his team, it is by taking most of the gold from mid and screwing his allies. Not fun. If a tinker loses the game for his team, it is by failing to farm mid and failing to help with stuns or pushes. Also not fun. Tinker is a powerful tank, and tinker adds depth to the game, yes. But both in bad ways for everyone else who is not tinker in that game.
Please remove it. It is 99% always lamer selfish people who destroy game and are not able to do teamplay...
With the buff tinker should cost at least 200 gold.
I agree Tinker should either be removed from league mode, or not be a "free" tank.
Tinker is a team tank, it's used to push the enemy and force them to spend their gold on an early hull unless they wanna die.
Here is a replay of a good tinker play.
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attachment=1080]
(2011-05-23, 09:43:29)Tynkywinky Wrote: [ -> ]Tinker is a team tank, it's used to push the enemy and force them to spend their gold on an early hull unless they wanna die.
Here is a replay of a good tinker play.
Come on Tynky, I can post a replay of good play with any build... We have to check the general behaviour of tinker players and you have to admit that it is nocive to the game. All pub 99% tinker players are selfish bitches :o
(2011-05-23, 13:35:00)Althend Wrote: [ -> ] (2011-05-23, 09:43:29)Tynkywinky Wrote: [ -> ]Tinker is a team tank, it's used to push the enemy and force them to spend their gold on an early hull unless they wanna die.
Here is a replay of a good tinker play.
Come on Tynky, I can post a replay of good play with any build... We have to check the general behaviour of tinker players and you have to admit that it is nocive to the game. All pub 99% tinker players are selfish bitches :o
The general behavior is that people generally suck at bt, it's not only with the tinker, it's also scout and other tanks.
(2011-05-23, 16:37:14)Tynkywinky Wrote: [ -> ] (2011-05-23, 13:35:00)Althend Wrote: [ -> ] (2011-05-23, 09:43:29)Tynkywinky Wrote: [ -> ]Tinker is a team tank, it's used to push the enemy and force them to spend their gold on an early hull unless they wanna die.
Here is a replay of a good tinker play.
Come on Tynky, I can post a replay of good play with any build... We have to check the general behaviour of tinker players and you have to admit that it is nocive to the game. All pub 99% tinker players are selfish bitches :o
The general behavior is that people generally suck at bt, it's not only with the tinker, it's also scout and other tanks.
Behalve that people improves when they play other tank than tinker.
(2011-05-24, 00:07:59)Althend Wrote: [ -> ] (2011-05-23, 16:37:14)Tynkywinky Wrote: [ -> ] (2011-05-23, 13:35:00)Althend Wrote: [ -> ] (2011-05-23, 09:43:29)Tynkywinky Wrote: [ -> ]Tinker is a team tank, it's used to push the enemy and force them to spend their gold on an early hull unless they wanna die.
Here is a replay of a good tinker play.
Come on Tynky, I can post a replay of good play with any build... We have to check the general behaviour of tinker players and you have to admit that it is nocive to the game. All pub 99% tinker players are selfish bitches :o
The general behavior is that people generally suck at bt, it's not only with the tinker, it's also scout and other tanks.
Behalve that people improves when they play other tank than tinker.
+1 I agree with Althend.
For the beginer players, if they start with thinker, they will try to learn only to absorb more money from the creeps at middle, and hide themselves far behind. This is more like a selfish way of playing.
When starting with other tanks, they will learn how to make the moves and how to get more kills together with teammates. This forces them to participate to the game and realize the btanks is a team-based game.
So i vote to disable thinker in league.
(2011-05-24, 17:49:56)olivercamel Wrote: [ -> ] (2011-05-24, 00:07:59)Althend Wrote: [ -> ] (2011-05-23, 16:37:14)Tynkywinky Wrote: [ -> ] (2011-05-23, 13:35:00)Althend Wrote: [ -> ] (2011-05-23, 09:43:29)Tynkywinky Wrote: [ -> ]Tinker is a team tank, it's used to push the enemy and force them to spend their gold on an early hull unless they wanna die.
Here is a replay of a good tinker play.
Come on Tynky, I can post a replay of good play with any build... We have to check the general behaviour of tinker players and you have to admit that it is nocive to the game. All pub 99% tinker players are selfish bitches :o
The general behavior is that people generally suck at bt, it's not only with the tinker, it's also scout and other tanks.
Behalve that people improves when they play other tank than tinker.
+1 I agree with Althend.
For the beginer players, if they start with thinker, they will try to learn only to absorb more money from the creeps at middle, and hide themselves far behind. This is more like a selfish way of playing.
When starting with other tanks, they will learn how to make the moves and how to get more kills together with teammates. This forces them to participate to the game and realize the btanks is a team-based game.
So i vote to disable thinker in league.
Due to olivercamel's convincing argument I vote for disable of the tinker.
Instead of disableing tinker i prefer a change like
- towers will only work with tinker close by
- towers cant carry weapons anymore
- tower needs to be manually controlled
- tower do have a lifetime
- ...
something like this to reduce the passiv factor of a tinker which is, i think, one of the most annoying parts you guys complaining about.
You build some towers, getting almost the most creepgold in mid and do nothing.
Removing would reduce some possibilies like
- playing short time tinker (3min or so) to start with 2500+ weapon
- buffing force tower (especially lane tower)
- denying besieged team an end game tank
I agree with prog that reducing possibilites in battle tanks makes it poorer