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+---- Thread: [8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work (/showthread.php?tid=1466)
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[8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work - Gammagulp - 2009-03-11
Hi there,
in a recent game I fighted against some air - and thought this is a good chance for Banish lvl 5 stun lvl1/2 and Ultimate.
With attack and later even teleport in combination my ultimate kills all creeps nearby, but no or no visible damage to the enemy banished tanks.
This was really annoing, because they kileld me often then and never received the nearly 2.500 damage +25% Bonus -->about 3100.
I tried later with stun and without banish - it worked perfect, but with banish nothing - I will try it in own game again.
Edit: I tried to add replay, but I cannot - maybe 2.6 Mb are too much. I added a 4 min Test Replay
Re: [8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work - horselance - 2009-03-11
Yes. I noticed that in my last game too. I thought i have seen it wrong at first but it seems not. I used Banish on a Sky Tank, then under it I used ultimate and no damage is given. This happened 3 times in that game. And funny thing is it was Gammagulp bot game..
Re: [8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work - Gammagulp - 2009-03-11
IF this cannot be changes I hope we can put banish back to ground, because it gets a comparable useless skill for a 10.000Gold tank. My equipment was quiet good - equal to my airship enemy, but if a skill deactivates the effect of an ultimate I hope we can improve it quiet a lot.
Re: [8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work - Prog - 2009-03-12
It can be changed easily i guess, as i suppose the damage dealt by the demon ulti is triggerd via physical damage, but needs to deal magic damage.
Re: [8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work - Gammagulp - 2009-03-15
I thought too, but I tested to destroy a teleport breaker from a Clanmate with the ultimate, who is vulnerable to physical damage I thought.
I didnt work.
Re: [8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work - qweqqweq - 2009-03-15
me and jaro tested the demon ult on a tp breaker 1 or 2 versions ago too when we first noticed it.. the damage of a demon's ult just doesn't work on a banished tank as far as i know. i dont' think it's a normal/magic damage issue though either. i'm not sure what's causing the issue but i'm pretty sure exo can figure it out if he wants too. and like i said before: i think i tried to net a banished sky fortress once and it just wasted the net with no effect. i'll try to remember to test it again after the next version comes out if no one else does.
Re: [8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work - Exodus - 2009-03-16
Hm, seems like this is not easy to fix. After some testing it seemed like every Fan of Knives-based skill won't deal damage against banished units. So making Banish able to target ground tanks again, won't change anything (tested).
Fan-of-Knive-based skills are:
Chaos Wave, Devil Explosion, Frost Bombs, Hail of Bombs, Hell Fire, Metal Stars, Multi Rocket-Shot, Shockwave (Goblin Tank)
Fixing this would require replacing every with another, but sadly Fan of Knives is the only skill which acts the way it does.
Re: [8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work - Althend - 2009-03-16
Make the banish reduce the heal of 50% for x seconds?
Re: [8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work - qweqqweq - 2009-03-16
wow, exo how were you able to tell so fast what the problem was? banish, net (and scout ensnare), and only 2 weapons are the only things i can think of that have a special advantage against air tanks. however, air is a good counter to a lot of tanks and items. are you saying banish will target ground now too? if so, that's too bad.
Re: [8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work - DerSatan - 2009-03-16
maybe change the banish skill? at least the slow effect can be done many different ways...
Re: [8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work - horselance - 2009-03-16
Fan of Knives must be a magic damage logically. Maybe it is a WC bug. Can you make them a trigger spell causing AoE magic damage? But dunno about the graphics.. Can work with the same way of Antigrav's ability.
Re: [8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work - Dr.McNinja - 2009-03-16
I agree with changing the banish skill entirely, maybe replace it with a slow effect + faerie fire or another skill that increases damage recieved.
I dont think the ulti should be changed since it could introduce more unseen problems.
Just having a skill that slows an air tank would be pretty damn usefull (instead of banish).
Re: [8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work - Gammagulp - 2009-03-16
Well i think buffing Banish so it is useful could be enough
(because it is not effective enough for an air only spell I think)Last question from me here: Did that mean, that all fan of knives based abilities cant damage banned heros.
If thats true it means a banished tank got no damage from the Chaos Wave of an infernal - pretty hard i think.
I would prefer then buffing the enemy tank not like banish but more with speed reduction and fairy fire - so -XX Armor increasing duration and Amount. (Buts its just a suggestion here for not causing to much work for the mappers
)
Re: [8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work - DerSatan - 2009-03-17
armor reduction has no effect to weapons and tank abilities, so it wouldnt be that strong. but if theres a possible workaround which gives slow + magic damage increase, that would be nice.
Re: [8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work - koshen - 2009-03-17
Definitely not sure about this one, but instead of using fan of knives how about using a temp dummy unit that has a pheonix fire based ability which does the corresponding damage and then have it disappear.
Re: [8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work - Dr.McNinja - 2009-03-17
@koshen
I kinda get what youre saying but that would be a lot of trouble for exo to fix a relatively small problem.
Re: [8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work - koshen - 2009-03-17
Dr.McNinja Wrote:@koshen
I kinda get what youre saying but that would be a lot of trouble for exo to fix a relatively small problem.
I (think) that's what actually happens when you add a weapon to a tank, the only thing that exo would need to change is the trigger being an ability. A dummy unit gets created at the position of the tank that has a version of the phoenix fire ability. Either that or the ability gets applied directly onto the tank. Doing it this way would ensure that damage is dealt when the projectile hits and not just when the skill is activated.
Anyway, this is just a suggestion as I haven't touched the map maker in aaaages.
Edit: Or banish could be changed such a way that it calculates the amount of damage done during the period in which it was cast and multiplies that amount by the appropriate percentage. I.e. sort of like witch doctor's maledict. This would sort of mirror the original banish however it should be considered a nerf as damage is delayed.
Re: [8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work - Gammagulp - 2009-03-18
Mapping ideas - even if I am not a mapper
:Well, the clamp (this slam Attack of the dwarven King) can do the job of an AOE attack of the demon too or not ?
So it used to deal damage to every target in range just by a click.
The tauren Chieftain got another AOE slam ability.
Last idea. There is a "spirit walker" or whatever from the orcs. he can get an ether from. If it is possible to get a targeted unit from banish to use that etherform for short it would receive additional magical damage before it tansform back scripted.
Re: [8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work - horselance - 2009-03-18
It can work with a "slow" spell. It can also add a -25% Magic Ressistance for duration of spell. So you are slowed and got 25% more damage. Same with the banish except you are not invulnerable to phsycal attacks, which I dont think is so important..
Re: [8.57]Banish and Ultimate Demon dont work - qweqqweq - 2009-03-24
i just tested it and you can't net a banished tank. it's not targetable. it says some message about a banished tank not being a valid target for net if you try it.