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+--- Thread: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? (/showthread.php?tid=3157)
RE: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? - olivercamel - 2012-03-05
(2012-03-05, 18:17:03)gozo1985 Wrote: we should do a triple thread match ... or rage in a cage ... weapons allowed
I think the game will be more like 1 game between 2 teams. So 3 games in total.
There will be no draw. All game goes to end until a winner comes out.
The team who wins the other 2 teams get to 1st rank. The team who loses to both get to the 3rd rank.
If after 3 games, 3 teams are still in a loop like A=>B=>C=>A, we will have 1 more round of 3 games. Until the rank has decided.
The team leaders can decide the game time, i.e. which 2 teams play first.
But the games should be done during the next weekend.
RE: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? - progg - 2012-03-05
Yep. Let the map decide;)
Btw: If cup stage match is draw we count k-d?
Would be absurd...
RE: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? - olivercamel - 2012-03-05
Actually the vote doesn't matter too much.
If all 3 teams agree to do the rematch we can do it. So far griffin1987 (OldSchool) said ok for the rematch. Terror-sheep said ok too (OldScotch). So i am waiting only the Seig-GeiL.
RE: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? - El_Polacco - 2012-03-05
(2012-03-05, 18:16:13)olivercamel Wrote: Thanks griffin1987 for supporting having rematches.
But having games like Sieg-GeiL vs. BuG is also not fair. And hard to evaluate who play vs. who.
I think the rematch should be between only Sieg-GeiL, OldSchool, OldScotch.
same situation had happened in group a tbbk team now showing up reduced BuG chances to minimum for heading next round . If you really think about new games we should create an extra group including ( BuG , Sieg-geil , Oldschool and Oldscotch ) and make 2 qualifers for next round from that group if this mentioned teams gonna agree that solution it should be fairest move but i suppose sieg-geil and oldschool wont be satisfied . Second and easiest way should be taking spot from revoltek to aggregate of game old scotch vs Bug What do u think about that ideas ?
RE: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? - EarthR - 2012-03-05
oliver something has to be done about bug and boozers tie also because bugs third game didnt happen so BUG got 0 k-d for that game. IF k-d is to be considered invalid in one group then the same should apply to all groups.
RE: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? - FirePhoenix - 2012-03-05
If there will be the rematch...the games should be done during the week (Today - Friday), that the quarterfinal games can be play this Saturday and Sunday. I guess most of us don't like to delay the quarterfinal-games/BTT for a week...
RE: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? - daCe - 2012-03-05
when u change the rules now.all teams/groups have too play their games again.not only 1 group.
RE: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? - olivercamel - 2012-03-05
(2012-03-05, 18:49:40)daCe Wrote: when u change the rules now.all teams/groups have too play their games again.not only 1 group.
No, you are wrong. We want to change the rule but not completely.
Before we have "team points" as 1st factor, "win-lose relationship" as 2nd factor, and "K-D" as the 3rd factor to rank teams. Now we are only talking about to remove the 3rd factor.
So if the teams can be ranked by the first 2 factors, we will do as the old rule says. Only if it is not, we want to arrange extra games instead of using K-D as a ranking factor.
For the other teams, the old rule still applies. And changing the 3rd factor doesn't affect them at all. So we don't need rematch for all other teams.
So far we are only talking about the teams which have same points, and cannot be ranked based on win-lose relationships, i.e. team Seig-GeiL, OldSchool and OldScotch. Maybe team Boozers and BuG in group A. All other teams are fine.
RE: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? - Smell.No.Evil - 2012-03-05
All in all you should consider that rules aren't made just to annoy single persons but more to keep social human behaviour to a common ground (even outside cyberspace
). Also every registered team accepted these rules (by reading, understanding and agreeing to them before). Changing them now would be bad in my opinion, plus probably open the doors for more complaints.
RE: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? - griffin1987 - 2012-03-05
btw: if you compare the 2 situations (with and without beertank games) sieg-geil is 1st or 2nd anyway, which makes it a race between oldschool and oldscotch only. And the game oldschool vs oldscotch was in our favour (=we won it). Just as a sidenote. And I'd really appreciate it if you don't call our following by the rules bad sportsmanship - beertanks could have given up anytime, but they didn't. And as loool already said - we've all agreed to the rules 3 times.
Still, if you all want a rematch - as I already said before - let's do it. In that case I'd suggest you post some game times first, as otherwise it will surely be a huge mess getting all 4 games coordinated (did I count right?)
Edit: maybe instead of your vote you should let people vote if it's okay to just change rules because you're unhappy with the result ... (I'm saying this now because it seems I'm not the only one disagreeing with changing rules while the tournament has already started weeks ago)
RE: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? - progg - 2012-03-05
(2012-03-05, 19:24:49)griffin1987 Wrote: btw: if you compare the 2 situations (with and without beertank games) sieg-geil is 1st or 2nd anyway, which makes it a race between oldschool and oldscotch only. And the game oldschool vs oldscotch was in our favour (=we won it). Just as a sidenote. And I'd really appreciate it if you don't call our following by the rules bad sportsmanship - beertanks could have given up anytime, but they didn't. And as loool already said - we've all agreed to the rules 3 times.
Still, if you all want a rematch - as I already said before - let's do it. In that case I'd suggest you post some game times first, as otherwise it will surely be a huge mess getting all 4 games coordinated (did I count right?)
Edit: maybe instead of your vote you should let people vote if it's okay to just change rules because you're unhappy with the result ... (I'm saying this now because it seems I'm not the only one disagreeing with changing rules while the tournament has already started weeks ago)
so only 1 match between sieg geil and griffins team for the first place?
RE: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? - Prokrastinat - 2012-03-05
So it actually happened the "K-D-Ratio Delaying" as i said its quite possible.
No offense to team "oldschool" , because they just played with the rules behind them.
My Solution would be just counting the Kills between the 3 Teams excluding the beertanks team.
Actually i was not satisfied with the Solution in my Group (Bug,Boozers) and the default win because TBBK didnt show up.
So a Tiebreaker-Match against Boozers would be fair.
RE: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? - EarthR - 2012-03-05
(2012-03-05, 19:24:49)griffin1987 Wrote: And I'd really appreciate it if you don't call our following by the rules bad sportsmanship - beertanks could have given up anytime, but they didn't.
in that game beertanks wouldnt have given up no matter what. They played for fun and it was shown in all of their games. In fact they were enjoying the fact that their game lasted 1 hour etc. You only finished that game when they said something liek come on finish it already. Otherwise you would just play there for 5-10 more minutes
. Just a side note. Nothing against what you did. The only problem(or the worst) with k-d situation is the way bug got disqualified.
RE: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? - griffin1987 - 2012-03-05
(2012-03-05, 19:54:09)EarthR Wrote:(2012-03-05, 19:24:49)griffin1987 Wrote: And I'd really appreciate it if you don't call our following by the rules bad sportsmanship - beertanks could have given up anytime, but they didn't.
in that game beertanks wouldnt have given up no matter what. They played for fun and it was shown in all of their games. In fact they were enjoying the fact that their game lasted 1 hour etc. You only finished that game when they said something liek come on finish it already. Otherwise you would just play there for 5-10 more minutes
Just a side note. Nothing against what you did. The only problem(or the worst) with k-d situation is the way bug got disqualified.
Well, both teams had fun till it ended then.
And yes, BuGs situation looks to be nearly the same kind of problem, and funnily Olivercamel (at the end of his initial post) as well as Prokrastinat as well as you mentioned that in this thread already, so it starts to feel to me as if some people might be just using the oldschool/oldscotch situation as a pretence ...
RE: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? - Prokrastinat - 2012-03-05
(2012-03-05, 20:04:19)griffin1987 Wrote:(2012-03-05, 19:54:09)EarthR Wrote:(2012-03-05, 19:24:49)griffin1987 Wrote: And I'd really appreciate it if you don't call our following by the rules bad sportsmanship - beertanks could have given up anytime, but they didn't.
in that game beertanks wouldnt have given up no matter what. They played for fun and it was shown in all of their games. In fact they were enjoying the fact that their game lasted 1 hour etc. You only finished that game when they said something liek come on finish it already. Otherwise you would just play there for 5-10 more minutes
Just a side note. Nothing against what you did. The only problem(or the worst) with k-d situation is the way bug got disqualified.
Well, both teams had fun till it ended then.
And yes, BuGs situation looks to be nearly the same kind of problem, and funnily Olivercamel (at the end of his initial post) as well as Prokrastinat as well as you mentioned that in this thread already, so it starts to feel to me as if some people might be just using the oldschool/oldscotch situation as a pretence ...
As you can maybe see in this tournament board.
After the Group phase and the fallout of BuG. No one of us has complained about the unfair situation in 1 thread.
So please just stop that.
RE: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? - FoelliX - 2012-03-05
heyhey,
if we ignore the "abuse" of delaying game to increase k-d, it does not change anything about the fact that we won/lost "best". Cause excluding the games against beertanks we got the best k-d. We stick to the rules and we made it through the groupphase.
one team might have stretched the rules but they did not cheat. they slighly stick to the rules. We could have done more frags against beertanks i guess but we did not because we did not mind the k-d rule. oldschool did but they just followed the rules.
All in all every team followed the rules and the result is final! Unlucky 3rd rank for oldscotch but thats sports too! I am sorry. Oldscotch played very well but they lost according to the rules!
RE: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? - Althend - 2012-03-05
Actually I think that the situation about bug is far more annoying. Bug could pown the game and make it long game to grab a lot of kills.
About the k/d ratio, can't we use the duration of the game too?
Like for example, each 5 min below 1h30 count as 2 kills for the winning team?
RE: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? - griffin1987 - 2012-03-05
(2012-03-05, 20:29:22)Althend Wrote: Actually I think that the situation about bug is far more annoying. Bug could pown the game and make it long game to grab a lot of kills.
About the k/d ratio, can't we use the duration of the game too?
Like for example, each 5 min below 1h30 count as 2 kills for the winning team?
That Idea would have been nice if it came before this situation, because, if we start with that now there's gonna be:
- those who want the number to be small enough
- those who want the number to be big enough
So, if we're gonna do that we'd need to make a graph of time + k/d difference, then smooth the resulting line/curve, and project it unto 1h30. Doubt that anyone would want to do the work, as then you'd have to go through the replays writing down whenever a kill happens for one of the teams, and do that for all games.
I like the idea of doing that, but unfortunately it would involve a lot of work as well as it just being to late now
RE: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? - El_Polacco - 2012-03-05
the new revoltek imo shouldnt have so easy way for next round cause their organisation has failed hard ( dont know about real reasons of rest people who just refused to take part in tournament ) but to be fair for another teams then it would be better to include them in extra games.
Teams which suffered by unfair k/d ratio and lowered time of game in 3 team group each will have 2 games and then might be counted overall points if not then will count k/d ratio how about this ?
RE: [vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch? - progg - 2012-03-05
After analyzing the situation - i mean no matter if we count k-d with or without matches with BeerTanks - Sieg-Geil would be promoted to cup stage anyway.
Therefore i think the best solution is:
Game between Oldschool And Oldscotch. ->1
Game Sieg Geil and winner of game Oldschool-Oldscotch.
Forcing Sieg Geil to play with "Olds" would be unfiar, couse this team would advance anyway.
And if we do so i can't imagine that Bug and Boozers won't play deciding match, since BuG suffers from the sam reason - bad k-d rule.