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+--- Thread: Tinker exploder (/showthread.php?tid=3668)
RE: Tinker exploder - Exodus - 2013-01-22
(2013-01-22, 10:17:55)AeroniumX Wrote: Sounds like a good idea to implement those changes.what is the range of defuse? 1000? 1200? Might be a bit hard to counter 1600 teleport range and higher since many uses xp boost as well quite early. Can the defuser be abused to defused himself to explode instantly?
This must be released public to see how these changes would impact the explosives balance. This would make burst armor quite good counteragainst explosives.
That's why I said I wanted to improve the Defuser range, so it becomes easier to defuse an Exploder.
Also, good point with the selfdefuse. I think I'd limit the use on enemy Explosives only.
I'd also like to mention, that the Burst already is a good counter for Explosives. I don't plan any changes there, because it is already working. I just mentioned it, so you guys are aware of that fact ;)
RE: Tinker exploder - Max - 2013-01-22
Well then defuse + breaker will make explosives useless. As you said, burst armor is at the moment a good counter for explosives. Teleport breakers are also good counter for explosives (espacially when you don't stand near it...).
You suggest to give an assist for exploder suicide. But why would you up defuse range? And if you can see countdown with defuser, you will see it with detectors. This will make explosives useless ! Why do you want that? Then just remove explosives from game.
There will be no way to use explosives. And as I said : explosives are expensive. When someone use it he needs 10 kills at start to pay it back and upgrade it. And most of the time guys can afford little hull at 5' (or burst armor) : then they can't be killed by a little explosive, of hardly. Then tinker have to upgrade it, but it's hard with his little farm because that kind of player don't kill a lot of creeps, then they are out farmed from creeps...
I really don't understand why this need a change. Assist is a good idea because tinker can kill you and you get no gold because he can suicide, then this would balance a little bit. But now there is no big problem to counter a tinker exploder. There are a lot of move possibility and items to destroy them.
And again, if suicide give an assist, will it be the same for mine suicide and bomb suicide with sky forteress? (I don't know if it gives an assist already or not...)
RE: Tinker exploder - Exodus - 2013-01-22
(2013-01-22, 12:21:41)Max Wrote: And again, if suicide give an assist, will it be the same for mine suicide and bomb suicide with sky forteress? (I don't know if it gives an assist already or not...)
Such a change would affect any form of suicide, yes.
RE: Tinker exploder - dirtyterror - 2013-01-23
I would be more happy if you would allov to play exploder in league on normal terms then tinker carry hulls, explosives and other stuff at the same time...
For today tinker-exploder ruins games.
RE: Tinker exploder - Max - 2013-01-23
What's the problem by playing tinker exploder? Why do you prefer exploder tank? It's the same thing no? Where's the difference?
RE: Tinker exploder - dirtyterror - 2013-01-24
(2013-01-23, 09:21:50)Max Wrote: What's the problem by playing tinker exploder? Why do you prefer exploder tank? It's the same thing no? Where's the difference?
Max... Play exploder vs pc and you will see whats the difference... Exploder dies when he fail and feed, exploder revives only when his ult is triggered, he cant carry hulls and any other gear besides of explosives smoke ( i think) and speed and ect.
RE: Tinker exploder - eSVau - 2013-01-24
The only tank with item restrictions is trader, all other tank can use any allowed item.
RE: Tinker exploder - dirtyterror - 2013-01-24
(2013-01-24, 02:32:41)eSVau Wrote: The only tank with item restrictions is trader, all other tank can use any allowed item.
Rly? i thought that exploder cant carry any hull or weapons...
Tell me why, when you choose to play exploder you can buy all aviable items? its sensless...
Just like mines working for air units... (thats another topic i want to touch in next post, im just to lazy for now - exploder exploited me...)
RE: Tinker exploder - Prog - 2013-01-24
Well, if you get the Infernal Robot you can buy items other than infernal rocks too...
~~
RE: Tinker exploder - AeroniumX - 2013-01-24
Well, I'm looking forward for next version which addresses this issue.
I find using only using the breaker at beginning waste of 300 gold since every gold is quite valuable the first minutes of the game. Some players without lagg is able to use the time window of 0.2 sec. Hopefully getting it lower might prevent breaker cheat jumps.
RE: Tinker exploder - dirtyterror - 2013-01-24
(2013-01-24, 12:29:48)Prog Wrote: Well, if you get the Infernal Robot you can buy items other than infernal rocks too...
~~
Ohh jeez Progg you are so smaaart
(2013-01-24, 12:52:21)AeroniumX Wrote: Well, I'm looking forward for next version which addresses this issue.
I find using only using the breaker at beginning waste of 300 gold since every gold is quite valuable the first minutes of the game. And its 300 gold every 5 min on every lane cause exploder change lanes all the time. Some players without lagg is able to use the time window of 0.2 sec. Hopefully getting it lower might prevent breaker cheat jumps.
For today, dudes playing tinker-exploder are wasting our time in game by overpowering 1 team or weakening the other. I wont play ranked till mappers will fix that issue.
There is no way that some 1 resonable will think that spending 300 gold every 5 min its ok while the other side does not risk nothing... and its 300 gold every 5 min on every lane cause exploder change lanes all the time.
Totally nothing cause he does not feed so why should he think about not porting to bomb his ass away, and accidentially kill some dude that does not watch the full map all the time or being in fight with another player.
RE: Tinker exploder - Max - 2013-01-24
Well giving an assist would be the best solution to solve this problem in my opinion. And a tinker exploder will be maybe 10-0 after 5 min, just enough to make him upgrade his explosives and so on. But he only do that and use his gold only on explosives. He makes kills and get gold but help team 0. I played with one yesterday and after 1h05 he got a sky forteress... With 6 empty slots ! A tinker exploder can be boring at the begining, but is shit in the end ! Just have a look : http://league.btanks.net/game.php?gameid=35793 : green 492 creeps after 1h48 ! Tank value = 54k ! Don't say that tinker exploder is overpowered ! Just be patient. And with this assists thing probably coming on tinker exploder will be almost balanced.
RE: Tinker exploder - dirtyterror - 2013-01-24
(2013-01-24, 14:40:04)Max Wrote: Well giving an assist would be the best solution to solve this problem in my opinion. And a tinker exploder will be maybe 10-0 after 5 min, just enough to make him upgrade his explosives and so on. But he only do that and use his gold only on explosives. He makes kills and get gold but help team 0. I played with one yesterday and after 1h05 he got a sky forteress... With 6 empty slots ! A tinker exploder can be boring at the begining, but is shit in the end ! Just have a look : http://league.btanks.net/game.php?gameid=35793 : green 492 creeps after 1h48 ! Tank value = 54k ! Don't say that tinker exploder is overpowered ! Just be patient. And with this assists thing probably coming on tinker exploder will be almost balanced.
Imagine situation: Whole team defend cp, 5 on 5 but one have exploder, then exploder sneak up BANG 3 players dead 2 left defending vs 4.
Mappers try to avoid overpowered items and so one. And this tactic cause more lotto then energy torpedo among 10 creeps + player.
RE: Tinker exploder - gozo1985 - 2013-01-24
hello guys... me back from a big btanks pause
just want to give feedback on tinker exploder...
The situation right now is not good. i played like 7 qualify games last days an in 6 games there was an exploder. (sometimes more than 1 on each side). i think this is killing btanks a bit.
as the tinker exploder always suicides you dont get any gold. so i understand ppl not buying breakers - as they are destroyable as well and stick in a location so you need them on each area of interest.
i think its not good balanced and the explosive thing is worse then before.
Sorry exodus - i like your ideas and work on the map - but i think its good to give you feedback if a part of the game makes a step back then forward - and the explosive thing is such a part
RE: Tinker exploder - Max - 2013-01-24
That's why the assist idea could balance it a bit.
Otherwise : just buy burst armor ! You can afford one at 5' and upgrade it before 20'. Then tinker can explod you won't die. I just player a game when dami went tinker exploder in the end because game was lost. He got it at 25', even with 5.4k damage he didn't kill iguors. Why? Because he had burst upgraded ! You can afford 2.5k on steel hull, then why not 3k on burst? I think that a try should be made with assists, and see if it's more balanced or not, and then why not upgrading defuse. But if tinker exploder is too easy to counter, it will be too weak to play and then it will just need to be retired from btanks...
And if you defend a cp when there is an exploder : don't tell me that a whole team is stupid enough to stand all grouped on cp... And if they are, then they just deserve to lose XD
RE: Tinker exploder - Exodus - 2013-01-24
(2013-01-24, 18:44:57)gozo1985 Wrote: Sorry exodus - i like your ideas and work on the map - but i think its good to give you feedback if a part of the game makes a step back then forward - and the explosive thing is such a part
You know, I kind of have a conflicting position on that matter. On one hand I can understand that people are complaining, since Explosives have a rather big influence on the gameplay and are not properly balanced as of yet. I took this risk willingly, to kinda force players to give me the feedback that I need, to balance the Explosives.
On the other hand I have to point out, that there was a beta. Not just a short one, but one that was online for nearly four months.
I don't want you guys to have an unbalanced map to play, but I felt I had to do it this way, so you actually tell me what's wrong with the Explosives. Because of the big influence that Explosives can have and the different kind of strategy and gameplay they provide, they are - in my opinion - a good addition to the game. I also want to point out, that the remake of the Explosives was supposed to open up new uses for them. You don't have to die anymore, to be actually able to use them. They have great synergy with some skills and items now and may provide a different way to play the game, which did not exist before.
I want you guys to consider all this, before demanding to remove the Explosives from League again.
@Max:
You say that the Defuser would make the Exploder strategy useless. I'll tell you some numbers now, so that you may see yourself, why this might not be the case:
Tinker level 1 Teleport range: 1000
Tinker level 2 Teleport range: 1625
Exploder Teleport range (the same on every level): 2250
Current Remote Fuse range: 1500
Mine Defuse Pack range: 1800
I think I'm going to keep the ranges of the Defuser. At the start the Remote Fuse has an advantage (but you'd also have to get the Fuse really early), after that it's going to be close. But keep in mind, that the target area of the Remote Fuse is only 125, which is really small, so hitting the Tinker / Exploder won't be easy.
RE: Tinker exploder - Jason - 2013-01-25
Something has to be done about the kick system. Like Exodus said above the explosives now mix well with tank skills.I have found a build that is very enjoyable to play with when done correctly.
I was doing very well for my team and just because he could and for his own personal amusement this guy kicked me today and it only took ONE vote.
not fair
lolPlease enjoy the REPLAY!!! my build is very fun to use!
RE: Tinker exploder - Exodus - 2013-01-25
I plan to release a new version in the next couple of days, which will adress the more serious issues (assists for selfkills, less penalty for selfkills, no delay with the Teleport Breaker, mac crash) and after that I'll build another version with the Defuser (at least, it will be likely) and other things. So I'm going to take this stepwise. This will make it easier to see what impact these changes have and it'll also be faster, so you guys don't have to 'suffer' the current situation too long.
RE: Tinker exploder - Jason - 2013-01-25
ANY1 interested in explosives, my replay is a MUST WATCH!
My player name is WEETARD
I didnt buy the explosives until after 30 minutes! you will see why if you watch
RE: Tinker exploder - Max - 2013-01-25
Oh ok, then it would be some kind of advantage to see tinker coming in early game right? Well. Hum... Will it be worth it? I mean paying 1250 just to try to avoid an explosion and getting no big advantage with that. I mean : you can defuse mines, this can give you creeps or tanks kills. But avoiding an exploder gives you nothing.
And i have a question : how assist will work? Because if tinker suicide, you don't have time to damage him to get the assist. Then all the guys dying to exploder will get assist? Then the thing is : when you actually avoid an explosion, you get nothing again if you don't damage him, then my point is that defuser won't be worth it. Mostly because 90% of times you see tinker coming and can evaluate when he will tp. Or maybe just give this faculty to eyes? This would be less expensive and easier to use. Do you see my point?