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+--- Thread: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? (/showthread.php?tid=2393)
Re: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? - Frechheit - 2008-04-14
The thing with Gold for defusing mine is a good i idea i think :/
Re: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? - Tribulation - 2008-04-17
But it would pretty much force the demo or the mine-planting player to change his strategy completely, there aren't many spots you can plant mines on along the lanes, if the enemy is smart enough to stay on the main path between the two cps and has a fixed line on which he moves. With a defuser, he just needs to monitor the demo's moves along that line, defuse whenever he can (and the cd is pretty short), and it's game over for the demo, even more so if mine-defusing brings money.
Re: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? - horselance - 2008-04-17
I didnt like the idea.
Re: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? - Batto - 2008-04-17
If someone goes and takes smokescreen, do you get money every time you see him when you buy radar or wands...?
If someone buys explosives and teleports, do you get money if you buy teleport breaker and you use it...?
If someone tries to shoot you with his rocket and you are skilled enough to dodge as tinker with your teleport, do you get money...?
NO !
Why not? It is a counter to a certain tactic, just like the mine defuse kit is a counter to the mine laying tactic and you shouldnt get gold for that either ! Sorry, but it is like that, just learn to cope with it!
Yes mines can be annoying but learn to adapt to it and if you really cant or your team isnt up to it, just avoid them till they are worthless compared to your hp or something! It's all about action and reaction in this game and if you do not want to react by buying the defuse kit, then dont and react/counter another way (hull, tank, avoid, run over and retreat,...) !
If you really want to change something, dont change the damage of any of the mines, change the cost of defuse kit a little bit.
Re: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? - DerSatan - 2008-04-18
im against giving mines a bounty too.
but i would be fine with a little less (demolisher-) mine damage and a little shorter cooldown for the mine skill instead.
Re: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? - jonjon - 2008-04-18
Batto Wrote:If someone goes and takes smokescreen, do you get money every time you see him when you buy radar or wands...?
If someone buys explosives and teleports, do you get money if you buy teleport breaker and you use it...?
If someone tries to shoot you with his rocket and you are skilled enough to dodge as tinker with your teleport, do you get money...?
NO !
Why not? It is a counter to a certain tactic, just like the mine defuse kit is a counter to the mine laying tactic and you shouldnt get gold for that either ! Sorry, but it is like that, just learn to cope with it!
Yes mines can be annoying but learn to adapt to it and if you really cant or your team isnt up to it, just avoid them till they are worthless compared to your hp or something! It's all about action and reaction in this game and if you do not want to react by buying the defuse kit, then dont and react/counter another way (hull, tank, avoid, run over and retreat,...) !
If you really want to change something, dont change the damage of any of the mines, change the cost of defuse kit a little bit.
LOL .. If you've flicked back a couple of pages, I was all for making mines stronger and bringing them to their former self (No activation time, static damage), also introducing an ultimate mine.
Then I came to a compromise where I simply agreed to a bounty suggested by durka. Which isn't a bad idea since diffuse kits become expendable easily and simply consume item space in the late game.
Then you come up with an idea that we should make diffuse kits cheaper, which in the end makes money anyway.
Whose side are you on anyway? :roll:
Re: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? - Batto - 2008-04-18
Sorry but i dont know why you think my reaction was meant for you...(and dont worry, i always read a whole topic before reacting
)? i only reacted to the idea of making money by diffusing mines. And then i suggested that if you (people in general over here) would really like to change something, then lower the cost of the diffuse kit a very small bit. Nothing more, nothing less...But i reconsidered after re-reading and dersatan's remark. If it is the mines of the demolisher only, then yes, maybe a small damage reduction but also cooldown reduction is a good idea... The other mines are really fine as they are now imo, it is also a huge sacrifice to buy such mines as to money and inventory slots...
Re: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? - Frechheit - 2008-05-05
I am very unsatisfied that the Demolisher is strong as before.
What does 50% Damage for Allied Units?? That sucks.
Re: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? - Prog - 2008-05-05
In my opinion demolisher mines are well balanced now. On the side lanes antigrav counters mines pretty well and in mid mines are not that dreadfull anyway.
Re: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? - horselance - 2008-05-05
Scout towers now can see invisible too. So they can counter mines with a single defuse kit.
Re: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? - Frechheit - 2008-05-05
Prog Wrote:In my opinion demolisher mines are well balanced now. On the side lanes antigrav counters mines pretty well and in mid mines are not that dreadfull anyway.
What u mean with counter? The jump dont trigger mines okay but then?
For example i attack a demolisher and jump to him
At first i must drive with him cause he wouldnt stand there with no action
At second i must drive back to heal
and then how can i escape the mines?
How can i creep without detecting the mines?
Re: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? - TKF - 2008-05-05
horselance Wrote:Scout towers now can see invisible too. So they can counter mines with a single defuse kit.I think the watch towers detection range is a bit short, but a bit useful.
Frechheit Wrote:What does 50% Damage for Allied Units?? That sucks.Well, that might now damage enemies with their own mines with defusing. But I rarely see defuse kit used against demolisher mines. More likely to be used against players which buys big mines.
Prog Wrote:On the side lanes antigrav counters mines pretty well and in mid mines are not that dreadfull anyway.Counter mines well? Moving normally still trigger mines.
Jump only provides sort of random dodge factor for the antigrav, but might work well if you know where the enemy demolisher put his mines. However moving as before will still detonate mines. I can only see this to be useful for capturing enemy mined CP's and sometimes random lucky mine dodging where you jump if you are unknown with the location of enemy mines.
____
Well the mines are indirectly nerfed though friendly mine damage, but still does the same damage as before.
Re: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? - LuckyD0g - 2008-05-05
I think that mines should not be triggered by Air Tanks and Anty-Grav.
And food cost needs to be added.
Re: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? - Prog - 2008-05-05
Frechheit Wrote:Prog Wrote:In my opinion demolisher mines are well balanced now. On the side lanes antigrav counters mines pretty well and in mid mines are not that dreadfull anyway.
What u mean with counter? The jump dont trigger mines okay but then?
For example i attack a demolisher and jump to him
At first i must drive with him cause he wouldnt stand there with no action
At second i must drive back to heal
and then how can i escape the mines?
How can i creep without detecting the mines?
Jump to the demo, stun him, kill him (the probability that you drive into 2 mines while killing him is quite small, not zero, but quite small), wait for jump cooldown, jump away. I had no chance with my demolisher against an opponent (Leistungsapfel) with Antigrav that way and you know that we're both not that noobish. Creeping without driving into mines is quite easy, you just need to watch carefully und remember positions of mines, that's not that hard, is it?
Re: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? - Frechheit - 2008-05-05
Prog Wrote:Frechheit Wrote:Prog Wrote:In my opinion demolisher mines are well balanced now. On the side lanes antigrav counters mines pretty well and in mid mines are not that dreadfull anyway.
What u mean with counter? The jump dont trigger mines okay but then?
For example i attack a demolisher and jump to him
At first i must drive with him cause he wouldnt stand there with no action
At second i must drive back to heal
and then how can i escape the mines?
How can i creep without detecting the mines?
Jump to the demo, stun him, kill him (the probability that you drive into 2 mines while killing him is quite small, not zero, but quite small), wait for jump cooldown, jump away. I had no chance with my demolisher against an opponent (Leistungsapfel) with Antigrav that way and you know that we're both not that noobish. Creeping without driving into mines is quite easy, you just need to watch carefully und remember positions of mines, that's not that hard, is it?
Hrhr Next Private Game Dude
Re: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? - Althend - 2008-05-06
The mines are still unbalanced.
Re: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? - Prog - 2008-05-06
Frechheit Wrote:Hrhr Next Private Game Dude
I'd like to see a recap from your opinion. I think it worked quite ok (even tho we both didn't play that great) and we played 9-8 (in my favor) till we had our demons and you had to switch to mid. It didn't show any imbaness in mines, rather emphasized that with a Antigrav you can deal with the Demolisher. Unfortunaly there is no replay, becouse the game was ended by a fatal error (don't know why it occured).
Re: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? - Frechheit - 2008-05-19
I can only repeat my Statements.Demolisher is too strong. I dont know but Exodus u wanted to make the Demolisher weaker?
But at Present the Strength of the Demolisher is like before.
Many Players are very pissed when they must play against Demolishers. It really can destroy the Fun at the game.
At the first Point i think the mines must get lower dmg or otherwise the demolisher must cost more.
Re: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? - JpOO - 2008-05-27
A little bounty for defusing would be nice. Like 30 gold for "mines"; 80 for "large mines"; 150 for "huge mines". And something like that with Demolisher's mines.
Re: THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak? - Tribulation - 2008-05-27
In that case, the cooldown for the Defusing Kit must be increased. Imagine a lot of mines to defend a cp, and an enemy that pretty much knows where they are at, since he paid attention. That player would get filthy rich in no time by defusing the mines, and the mine-laying player couldn't do shit about it. I'm against that, sure, the Defusing Kit is quite expensive in the beginning, but it can destroy a lot of the Demolisher's (or Tinker's) farming basis already, without giving money itself.