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+--- Thread: Tiers 3 and Tiers 4 tanks: balance and vision of end game (/showthread.php?tid=1394)
Tiers 3 and Tiers 4 tanks: balance and vision of end game - Althend - 2009-04-14
Currently there are only 3 "tiers 4 tanks" : sky fortress, inferno and Titan.
These 3 tanks require some upgrades.
Comparing to tiers 3 where there is also 5 tanks: hunter, demon, frost, sky tanks and earth robot. We can see a really big difference of power between tiers 4 and 3.
The purpose of Titan was to be the ultimate end tank then why not decrease power of inferno and sky fortress to make them tiers 3 tanks?
The end game would turn on the same variety than mid game and I am sure that it would increase the fun.
Currently the first one to get tiers 4 tanks put a pressure on opponent who save for another tanks. Some get enough for frost but most wait to get better. The armor requirement makes an artificial gaps betweens these tanks. It was the answer to the insta-usual imba tech: "save for inferno" when in previous version, requirement did not exist.
My suggestion, is to reduce inferno and sky fortress power, reduce a bit their price and remove their requirement. If we keep the artificial gaps between tiers 3 and 4, the long games will always turn on titan + sky +inf.
Making all tanks behalve Titan having a price lower than 14k (for exemple) would increase variety and make the end being a: sky vs inf vs demon vs forst vs hunter vs earth, sky fort. People would focus more on skills, item than on saving their money for bigger tank.
Observation in normal mode:
1-10 min: tiers 1 tanks: no tanks bigger than shredder
10-17: tiers 2 tanks: rarely reach more than goblin
17-30: tiers 3 tanks appears, until frost
30-...: tiers 4: sky fort or inferno
40-... maybe Titan.
As you can see, second part of the game lack of tanks. I vote for a big variety of tanks around the same price(tiers3) but with different strat than a good saving to get the last tank. End games of Btanks should rely on better skills, teamplay, build than better saving/predication :p
Re: Tiers 3 and Tiers 4 tanks: balance and vision of end game - horselance - 2009-04-14
I stongly agree thet there must be more variaty of tanks to tier 3-4. Some tactics have no end point for high tiers.
Re: Tiers 3 and Tiers 4 tanks: balance and vision of end game - qweqqweq - 2009-04-14
wouldn't a simpler solution be to just raise the price and strength of titan a little bit instead? I know that wouldn't help increase variety earlier on but you're talking about re-doing multiple tanks and then trying to re-ballance them. that sounds like it would be a nightmare for exodus.
Re: Tiers 3 and Tiers 4 tanks: balance and vision of end game - Althend - 2009-04-14
qweqqweq Wrote:wouldn't a simpler solution be to just raise the price and strength of titan a little bit instead? I know that wouldn't help increase variety earlier on but you're talking about re-doing multiple tanks and then trying to re-ballance them. that sounds like it would be a nightmare for exodus.
I just suggest to rebalance sky fortress and inferno to make them form tiers 3.5 to tiers 3; since most tank from heavy to frost are quit good balanced.
(so only Titan would need requirement)
^_^
(of course, if Exodus want to do more tiers 4 tanks... There is no problem
)
Re: Tiers 3 and Tiers 4 tanks: balance and vision of end game - Prog - 2009-04-14
I think the "tier" distribution is good as it is, no need to change anything in my opinion.
btw: your observation in normal mode is strange: minute 30- sky fort or inf and 40- titan Oo
Re: Tiers 3 and Tiers 4 tanks: balance and vision of end game - qweqqweq - 2009-04-14
i'm sorry. i guess i don't understand what you mean. what's a "tier" i always thought different tiers meant classes unlocked by research which in battle tank's case there would be 25 tiers.
if just titan had a tank requirement than you'd basicallly be making a huge giant rush to get to infernal since it would be the last best tank for such a long time unless you want to nerf that a bit and lower its price but then everyone would probably just pick sky fortress since it has that great gank ability. also that would make titan incredibly less used.
i'm confused what you mean by your suggestion, sorry.
Re: Tiers 3 and Tiers 4 tanks: balance and vision of end game - Althend - 2009-04-14
Prog Wrote:I think the "tier" distribution is good as it is, no need to change anything in my opinion.
btw: your observation in normal mode is strange: minute 30- sky fort or inf and 40- titan Oo
Some players are really fast if their team upgrade ^_^ It is true that is a bit too fast (especially for the titan and inf, it woul be more 35 for sky, 40 for inf, 50 for titan :p).
Quote:i'm sorry. i guess i don't understand what you mean. what's a "tier" i always thought different tiers meant classes unlocked by research which in battle tank's case there would be 25 tiers.
if just titan had a tank requirement than you'd basicallly be making a huge giant rush to get to infernal since it would be the last best tank for such a long time unless you want to nerf that a bit and lower its price but then everyone would probably just pick sky fortress since it has that great gank ability. also that would make titan incredibly less used.
i'm confused what you mean by your suggestion, sorry.
If you nerf the inf and the sky to a price around 13k, I don't think people would rush to frost. ^_^
They would choose relying on the skills and the build not the "power"
Don't you see the huge gap between all tanks and these 2 tanks?
My idea is to remove the gap by reducing their power and to keep the gap for the Titan :p
I don't think titan would be less played. In fact I don't see why it would be less played.
Re: Tiers 3 and Tiers 4 tanks: balance and vision of end game - Dr.McNinja - 2009-04-14
Solution: Titan requires tank level 25 or above.
Im going to sleep now.
Re: Tiers 3 and Tiers 4 tanks: balance and vision of end game - ChronicStoned - 2009-04-15
if you nerf the infernal and the skyfortress but dont change anything on the titan
even more people will save for the titan(and buy upgrades...) because no tank a chance vs titan
which will make the first team who gets a titan the victorious team.
and if the first titans team does not finish the game immediately all players will get titan
-> no variety again.
my solution:
more tanks which cost the same but have specific skills
examples:
-short range tank
-midd range tank
-long range tank
-support tank
-"tank" tank(dmg absorber blocker, maybe give it less weapon slots)
-and,and,and...
Re: Tiers 3 and Tiers 4 tanks: balance and vision of end game - Dr.McNinja - 2009-04-15
How about: Modify Sky Fort and Infernal to be able to match up to titan? Sky Fort's ult just doesnt really cut it against a team of titans. Infernal just does a lot of aoe damage.
Right now the only factor that determines a tank is how much it costs and having three 25k tanks would not be good. So how would fort and infernal get to the level of titan without changing cost?
Re: Tiers 3 and Tiers 4 tanks: balance and vision of end game - GooglyBoogly - 2009-04-15
I would consider the exploder to be a tier 1-4 tank. So you really have 4 options in the late-game.
It's probably too late to start trying to get wood and going for trader.
Re: Tiers 3 and Tiers 4 tanks: balance and vision of end game - horselance - 2009-04-15
We better fill the spaces and put new tanks in action. People will want new tanks anyway..
Every 3-4 versions we can balance 1 new tank. Dont know if there can be creative tanks.
Re: Tiers 3 and Tiers 4 tanks: balance and vision of end game - Dr.McNinja - 2009-04-15
Maybe people at the suggestions department are slacking off..
It seems like most if not all suggestions (for tanks anyway) dont go past one or two stages/revisions and are left in raw form that no one wants to touch. Or they jump in too deep and give stats and such without as much thought into the actual skills, effects, sounds etc.. leading to an idea that someone else has to clean up.
I know i havent put in any tank suggestions up to this 'standard' of being fairly refined but i will if i ever suggest a tank. Which im doing now. Soon.