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+--- Thread: What have you done to Btanks?! (/showthread.php?tid=1664)
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What have you done to Btanks?! - m0rbid - 2008-12-12
Hi. just a few points i would like to express in regards to the new editions to btanks.
first of all i expressed interest in a combo pack for troops and siege in an earlier post, thanks for adding it.
but what really grinds my gears is that its been made to easy to win.
siege cool down is longer than troop command, correct? so then why is it that now with the combo pack the cool down is still the same as troop command? ur pumping out more siege than required.
eg. spawns troops and siege at the same time , with the cool down of troop command and with one hit u can take out two towers; have cool down of troop command then spawn more and its gg.
in reality it should be half way between the time of the troop command cool down and siege cooldown(for example troop cool down 30 sec and siege 60 sec, therefore the combo pack cool down should be 45 sec.
Second of all, Im not sure it has been thought through enough but with the creation of the new siegetroop combo, a laser tower has been removed from the Artillery Factory, tell me this, if we are going to create better combos why remove the defence in the base?
In a 5v5 game 2 players start the game, buy a scout, and a troop command each. they proceed to mid where they completely flood it with creeps, 8 min later u have enough for siege. i have played many games where we have finished it in 20 min, without buying weapons just flooding it with creeps. now when it gets to the base its gg in a few min due to the amount of creeps and siege being pumped in, the last thing u want is for the map editor to remove defensive structures as in laser towers.
Third thing, what have you guys done to the factory?!
dropped the armour lvl to 2 instead of 4?! trying to encourage shorter games? and another thing, without the upgrade its 2500 gold armour lvl 2; heals people but doesnt spawn creeps?! just throw another 1000 at it and spawns creeps but doesnt heal? how is that an improvement upon the original factory? then if ur sick of it being a healer u click to change, doesnt pay you back the 1000 gold u spent and you dont have creeps anymore? what happens if u want it to be a healer again? another 1000 gold? i dont think this has been thought through enough.
i have alot of things on my mind about the editing of the battletanks map; eg mine defuser!? an enemy is over his own mine, u capture it and blow it up, so ur using ur enemies mines against them, they spend 3k buying the mines u spend 1/4 of that cost buying the defuser and then gettin the gold for the kill? its going to stop people from wanting to buy mines. AoE heal for Guard? its already imba enough. AI doesnt use its items on afkai eg troop commands, tp, invis, siege..... spawn point is the barracks yet tanks have to destroy the Artillery Factory, the Artillery Factory is a bit weak if thats the case, should spawn from the Artillery Factory, because if u have just respawned u need to get over to the Artillery Factory to try to save. too easy to win.
RECAP; either the third laser tower that was behind the Artillery Factory needs to be replaced to attend to all sides of incoming creeps and sieges, or the whole base should be laser towers and not cannon towers, or spawn should be from the Artillery factory.
thanks for making the combo pack, but the cool down needs to be changed,
factories either need to give u back the 1000 gold that u invested into it when down grading to the basic healer factory. in order to upgrade to creep spawning factory it should require lvl 4 armour, and or the 1000 gold upgrade should be a healer/spawning factory, not one or the other.
Remote Fuse shouldnt change power ownership of the mine to ur tank, but u should be rewarded for defusing mines, as in a percentage of the cost of the mine, as it is at the moment if an enemy tank is over his own mine and u defuse it, the tank dies and u get the kill, it shouldnt be like that; should be "Tank has killed himself" and a percentage of gold is given to u.
Thanks for listening and i hope some more things change for the better.
m0rbid
Re: What have you done to Btanks?! - bangyouredead - 2008-12-12
I'll bite my tongue but this is bs...siege packs are bought at the end of the game when it's already over. A loss of a laser tower doesnt matter, and armor who cares, it's all equal...if someone wasted 5k on siege and troops early in the game I'd destroy them and their income would be shit...
Re: What have you done to Btanks?! - Exodus - 2008-12-12
Well, it's always nice to get feedback on the recent changes, but I suggest playing a little more than a few games to see if these changes really were that game breaking.
Re: What have you done to Btanks?! - qweqqweq - 2008-12-12
Quote:Hi. just a few points i would like to express in regards to the new editions to btanks.
hmmm, so far so good. This sounds friendly and like it could be informative. Let's see where Morbid's going with this...
Quote:first of all i expressed interest in a combo pack for troops and siege in an earlier post, thanks for adding it.
but what really grinds my gears is that its been made to easy to win.
siege cool down is longer than troop command, correct? so then why is it that now with the combo pack the cool down is still the same as troop command? ur pumping out more siege than required.
eg. spawns troops and siege at the same time , with the cool down of troop command and with one hit u can take out two towers; have cool down of troop command then spawn more and its gg.
in reality it should be half way between the time of the troop command cool down and siege cooldown(for example troop cool down 30 sec and siege 60 sec, therefore the combo pack cool down should be 45 sec.
Did you not notice the pusher creep too? The Mortars only have 1200 instead if the old 1300 range btw. I'm not exactly sure what exactly spews out but it's definately not just a simple combination of troop comand and seige pack. And who cares about a few seconds in the cooldown? It cost 6k for the item and the recipie so it should be pretty good don't you think? Consider that an orbital bombardment only cost 5k.
Quote:Second of all, Im not sure it has been thought through enough but with the creation of the new siegetroop combo, a laser tower has been removed from the Artillery Factory, tell me this, if we are going to create better combos why remove the defence in the base?
Because games were taking too long. I like the change. You probably just don't know how to defend a base very well.
Quote:In a 5v5 game 2 players start the game, buy a scout, and a troop command each. they proceed to mid where they completely flood it with creeps, 8 min later u have enough for siege. i have played many games where we have finished it in 20 min, without buying weapons just flooding it with creeps. now when it gets to the base its gg in a few min due to the amount of creeps and siege being pumped in, the last thing u want is for the map editor to remove defensive structures as in laser towers.
Ok, now this is starting to sound a little retarded morbid. This map version just came out today so how many games could you have possibly played that ended in 20 minutes? Also, my first game playing the new version a few of us got the new troop item recepie and we won in 14 minutes and 33 seconds, what took you so long? The reason we won so fast is because the other team played like crap though. Any tank with a good aoe damage like a heavy tank, goblin tank, sky tank, demon tank, or frost robot for starters will have no problem countering huge masses of troops if played corectly.
Quote:Third thing, what have you guys done to the factory?!
dropped the armour lvl to 2 instead of 4?! trying to encourage shorter games? and another thing, without the upgrade its 2500 gold armour lvl 2; heals people but doesnt spawn creeps?! just throw another 1000 at it and spawns creeps but doesnt heal? how is that an improvement upon the original factory? then if ur sick of it being a healer u click to change, doesnt pay you back the 1000 gold u spent and you dont have creeps anymore? what happens if u want it to be a healer again? another 1000 gold? i dont think this has been thought through enough.
I don't care about the factory changes. I don't see what the big deal is.
Quote:i have alot of things on my mind about the editing of the battletanks map; eg mine defuser!? an enemy is over his own mine, u capture it and blow it up, so ur using ur enemies mines against them, they spend 3k buying the mines u spend 1/4 of that cost buying the defuser and then gettin the gold for the kill? its going to stop people from wanting to buy mines.
Wow! You are just bitching and crying about everything now! I've never liked that when I difused an enemy mine and it resulted in a hero or creep kill that I didn't get the gold. I like the improvement on the diffuser and I think it makes more sense now. Also, I hope people do stop buying mines all the time. It's not a very strong tactic in most games anyways in my opinion.
Quote:AoE heal for Guard? its already imba enough.
I like the guard improvemnt. I think it was a good idea and in no way shape or form was the guard already imbalanced in my opinion.
Quote:AI doesnt use its items on afkai eg troop commands, tp, invis, siege.....
If you're that worried about it then don't go afk. I've never used the afk ai in any of my games that I can recall
Quote:spawn point is the barracks yet tanks have to destroy the Artillery Factory, the Artillery Factory is a bit weak if thats the case, should spawn from the Artillery Factory, because if u have just respawned u need to get over to the Artillery Factory to try to save. too easy to win.
Morbid are you the type of player who gets killed a lot, looses his control points, and then sells his tank and all his weapons to get tinker and mines or else exploder? Do you try to drag out games against better players as much as you can with tactics that provide you with little or no chance of success unless they are too dumb to siege your base correctly and they fall asleep from boredom?
I'd like to play you sometime if your really think that battle tanks is too easy to win. I dissagree. I love the changes. Having 3 lazer towers was ridiculous. Also, when you first spawn you are invincible for a second or two so i think it makes sense that you should spawn a little ways behind the artillery factory, not in front of it. And the spawn point is only like 1 inch away so what's the big deal?
Re: What have you done to Btanks?! - SCorpA1 - 2008-12-12
Quote:Third thing, what have you guys done to the factory?!
dropped the armour lvl to 2 instead of 4?! trying to encourage shorter games? and another thing, without the upgrade its 2500 gold armour lvl 2; heals people but doesnt spawn creeps?! just throw another 1000 at it and spawns creeps but doesnt heal? how is that an improvement upon the original factory? then if ur sick of it being a healer u click to change, doesnt pay you back the 1000 gold u spent and you dont have creeps anymore? what happens if u want it to be a healer again? another 1000 gold? i dont think this has been thought through enough.
it was discussed, that the factory is not balanced and this solution for balancing is the best i think
besides, if you siege the enemys base, you have to spend less gold for a heal factory. it gives the gme a bit more strategic
you think its too easy to win...
but not until you siege the enemys base. and it was easier sieging requested, so its a good solution
Re: What have you done to Btanks?! - TKF - 2008-12-13
I kinda agree on the new troop command to have to fast mortar team spawning, compared to the siege pack it give more than the twice value as it spawns troops in addition.
My suggestion is 2 mortar teams instead of 3.
-
Or make it spawn 10 troops, 1 aura creep, 3 mortar with 50 sec cooldown.
Maybe other solutions than mine is better...
Re: What have you done to Btanks?! - Bobguydude - 2008-12-13
I don't see anything wrong with the new changes; shorter games was the goal with the new base design, so when that third laser tower made the games longer instead, it was changed to fulfill the original purpose. Unless you're playing with perfectly equal teams, or at least near equal in skill, the games are of course going to be shorter. And in regard to the comment on the mine defuser: teleport breaker is 300 (am I right on this?) and it stops the 3000 gold teleporter; radar is 1000 and it stops the 3000 gold smoke machine. Counters to items are usually less expensive than the original items being countered, so I don't see what you're whining about. Everyone else is right, wait more than a day before calling everything that was changed a ruination of the game. I do agree with TKF's suggestion though; two mortar teams would make that item more balanced, since the mortars have a reduced cooldown; the extra gold you're paying is for the aura creep and the extra slot, which is more than fair.
Re: What have you done to Btanks?! - m0rbid - 2008-12-13
qweqqweq i played 18 games that ended in 20 mins(approx) that day. over all played 24 games. tested out the troop command siege combo 8 times in a row before it got boring, other team mates copied, flooded the map with creeps gg.
and no im not the type of player who, loses his control points, and then sells his tank and all his weapons to get tinker and mines or else exploder
most of the ideas i put forward were to help other players, not just myself.
not trying to be bitchy just trying to express the dramatic changes that have put across in one ver.
Re: What have you done to Btanks?! - Gammagulp - 2008-12-13
So - morbid why dont you buy siege pack and troop command before - and spawn them when they both are ready ???
Everyone got this option before. But now you can get an aura creep for 1000Gold and an itemfusing too.
If you buy a siege pack you spend 2500Gold. And if you win in 20 min - what did your enemy buy then ? If they creeped as you do they could have used the money easy for other big tools/ tanks/ weapons too, dont they?
Re: What have you done to Btanks?! - Shift1 - 2008-12-13
Quote:how is that an improvement upon the original factory?
this is, indeed, far closer to the "original" factory. Because the original factory didnt spawned creeps.
About the version: I normally disliked changes in btanks. But here i have to say you made much things far better. Keep it going Exo
Re: What have you done to Btanks?! - GooglyBoogly - 2008-12-13
More testing is needed. Not all games are played with teams of wildly varying skill.
If it becomes apparent that the changes make any one strategy just plain better than another
- potentially involving the troop command recipe then fine. But it takes awhile to try all the counters in an organised fashion.
Just because the latest version of battle tanks has some rather large changes, and opens up new possibilities of playstlye while closing others does not make it imbalanced.
Re: What have you done to Btanks?! - griffin1987 - 2008-12-17
"Imbalanced" is the wrong term i'd say, but i have to agree to morbid in some points.
1. removing the 3rd laser tower was bad in my oppinion as well, because if you know how to siege and the enemy team is way worse than yours, a third tower doesn't really matter. On the other hand, if the game is between two good teams, it can prolong the game in a positive way - with the 3 laser tower layout I have already managed to win 3 times after having my own base close to destruction, as many teams just get that far because my side has too many newbie feeders and then they think they are oh so godlike and die terribly when assaulting.
2. the factory conzept is nice in the way that i think having EITHER heal OR spawning troops makes the factories less overpowering - still dumping the price down that far makes that change pretty meaningless, as i can still build 3 spawning factories close to my base and storm the enemy that way + you can now get a factory in front of the enemy with less money and, most importantly: you now only loose 2,5k money if they destroy one of yours or taken the other way around they only loose 2,5k money if you destroy one of their healing factories.
3. I think the new combo troop pack is okay, but i don't agree with siege troops being meant for the end of the game - ever tried starting with a scout + siege pack? It certainly does not give you that much money, but you will be able to storm the enemy early on. Still, of course this tactic can easily be countered, so i think it's fine as it is a nice way to end a game against newbie players faster.
4. about the remote fuse: I can't say i don't understand morbids point, but i certainly think the change of ownership is a huge improvement, as it was never rewarded enough when you bought a defuse pack - 1 slot lost permanently and a cost that is far from nothing (i don't mean to say that the defuse pack is overpriced, it's just not the "cheapest thing out there")
5. guard improvement is nice, i wished some other skills of other tanks were improved as well (I still think scouts guard tower & rune manipulation are rather useless at the moment, on the other hand the healing skill and the creep cannon are certainly not to be underestimated - demolisher catapult shot flies a bit too fast - exploder's (haven't played that one for some versions i have to say) exploding ability is pretty useless, as the damage is not nearly enough to be useable, also the exploder's mining ability is more for fun than anything else - infernals chaos teleport's casting time is about half a second too much - and i'm sure if i try to think for some minutes i could name other skills which could need some tuning...)
6. afk'ing for more than 2 minutes should not be possible in my mind, the only reason i ever afk'd was the need to go to the toilett in games that lasted longer than 2 hours - and then the game is already at a point where probably every second counts so i try to avoid afk'ing even if it physically hurts (players who have no time to play should not join / start a battletanks game or just host their own game with "for fun" in the game name)
Re: What have you done to Btanks?! - Gammagulp - 2008-12-17
First of all I have to say in that topic - what have you done to BT - I didnt fiund any new big bugs - so I like it.
To Point 6) - you want to tell me, that you can be sure, that you have 2hours no Contact with Real Life since the beginning of a game
hock: You must be joking. It happens here and there, that after an hour the telefone rings or whatever important happens. With 10 Players playing a BT it is quite sure, that 1 or 2 Players are suprised by a RL event
To the factories. You cannot siege with 3 spawning factories and plant normal factories, can you ? So attacking with 3 spawns and healing at a time is not possible.
Re: What have you done to Btanks?! - griffin1987 - 2008-12-17
1. It's not hard to use a mobile phone while playing bt - or do you have only one hand? If so, I'm certainly sorry for you, but in that case you probably shouldn't play battletanks or at least not comment in that way. And: if something really important happens, i think it's okay to just tell all ppl and then quit - typing "sorry gtg - emergency" takes not more than 20 seconds at most, as does quitting. If you don't want to quit, it can't be that important, so it can wait. And back on the phone topic: Pppl will call again if it's important - and if you're waiting for something really important to happen, don't start playing bt.
2. I think you misunderstood me a bit - i didn't say anything about healing. You just plant 3 spawning factories at your own base' entrance and wait for the creeps to do most of the work while easily killing the enemy tanks - it's a common tactic and sometimes very effective, deppending on many factors like the how good the enemy is or which weapons most of them have.
Re: What have you done to Btanks?! - Bhangbhangduc - 2008-12-17
As astonishing as it may sound, not everyone has a cellphone
Re: What have you done to Btanks?! - griffin1987 - 2008-12-17
As astonishing aas it sounds, i did not have one after being born - in fact, there were times, when i didn't have ANY KIND OF PHONE AROUND ME! - that's just underlining my point: Before there were cell phones or even before everyone had a phone at home, there were emergencies as well - but back then having your girlfriend call to tell you "oh wow, this new sex in the city episode was soooo much fun! I just had to call you!" or "can you guess? I bought those totally cool overpriced boots today!" wasn't treated as an emergency and people knew the difference between a real emergency which certainly was a reason to abandon whatever you were doing, and someone just dropping by for having someone else to talk with...
Do you get my point?
Hope i didn't sound offending this time around, i just really hate it when i get the feeling that somekind of phone is ringing around me every two minutes for some totally unimportant reason...
Re: What have you done to Btanks?! - ChronicStoned - 2008-12-18
maybe you take btanks a bit to serious. remember it's just a game.
Re: What have you done to Btanks?! - griffin1987 - 2008-12-18
Yeah, it IS just a game - you are right on that one - and that is why i still enjoy games even if i loose and never start swearing or saying "you are all so retarded" "stfu" "omg you dumb noob" "f*ck your mother" (I have read all those phrases in games). Still, a game is about having fun, and ppl going afk totally ruins the fun of about most other players - so why should it be okay for one player to go afk and in turn ruin the fun of up to 9 other players?
Re: What have you done to Btanks?! - Althend - 2008-12-18
An afk player doesn't feed. That's why I don't complain about them ^__^
Re: What have you done to Btanks?! - ChronicStoned - 2008-12-18
i think you really take this to serious..
seems like you are totally cutted off from real life when you are playing.
and if u have to go to toilett while playing, remember holding it over 2 hours can do serious dmg to your real life body!( ;D )