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+--- Thread: Newbie mode (/showthread.php?tid=1679)
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Newbie mode - Althend - 2008-12-05
I suggest creating a newbie mode selectable at beginning.
In this mode, each player would start with 2000 gold and a default weapon (such as tank canon 2000 gold).
It would prevent the problem of "heroes without weapon" that makes people leave/being kicked at beginning without understanding the game.
What do you think about?
Re: Newbie mode - horselance - 2008-12-05
Heh. Good idea.
Re: Newbie mode - Bobguydude - 2008-12-05
Yeah, it sounds like a good idea, but if you give people 2000 gold and a 2000 gold weapon I think people would just abuse it for the extra money. Maybe have it so that if it's turned on for that particular player it buys a random weapon for them (out of commonly chosen weapons for that tank) with their remaining money.
Re: Newbie mode - DerSatan - 2008-12-05
honestly, who would ever chose "newbie mode" in the beginning? i think the best way of learning is playing normal, losing hard and seeing what went wrong. additionally, theres a help system which already tells you to get a tank and a weapon, and if you dont, your teammates will tell you more or less friendly.
Re: Newbie mode - qweqqweq - 2008-12-05
I'm sorry, but I think this newbie mode is a terrible idea.
The problem with btanks noobs is that no casual player wants to get a calculator and figure out the dps/gold ratio for each weapon relative to its range. Most noobs think that because they did really good with a certain weapon or they saw some one else do good with it that it's the best. Unfortunately they will often go up to 5 minutes without a weapon at the start untill they can get their favorite.
So let's take a look at why this doesn't occur very much in dota. Let's put on our thinking caps. hmmmmmmmm. Oh ya! IN DOTA YOU HAVE A DELAY OF THE FIRST CREEP SPAWN WHICH GIVES EVERYYONE TIME TO LOOK AT WHAT ALL THEIR ALLIES HAVE FOR ITEMS AND WHAT LANE THEY ARE GOING TO!!!
In my mind, Battle Tanks should have at leaset a 30 second delay at the start before the first creeps are spawned as dota has. This would allow time to tell new players how to control point teleport to a lane, help them choose a weapon, and ensure that you don't have too many players go to the same lane.
The pause at the start is the key to dota's public game success. And battle tank's fast tempo start is the main reason why it's much more popular for private games and clans.
It's why you don't end up with 5 guys in the middle in Dota public games. it's why in dota you don't end up with 3 guys on a team with no items saving up to buy a sacred relic.
Consider this: In btanks at the start all the best players rush to their lane and try to kill as many creeps as possible because they know if they can get to level 2 or 3 before their opponent gets there than they will have a huge advantage. There is no time to look and make sure 4 guys aren't following you to your lane or check their items. If 4 guys follow u to middle as tinkers and all buy machine guns than there isn't anyting you can do about it. You're just screwed and the game is retarded.
Battle tanks actually needs a pause at the start more than dota because you need time to enter in game comands like, -e, -w, -rc, -zoom xxxx, -league, and -pw xxxxxxx. It would be much apprecitated by me if there was more time to call my lane. It's a dissaster if i have to control point teleport to bottom lane because everyone followed me to middle or top.
I think one of three things should be done. Either put in a 30 second delay in normal mode, put in a 30 second delay custom option, or put in a 30 second delay for all games.
Maybe some one could put it to a vote. "Are you willing to sacrifice 20 to 30 seconds at the start of every game to allow time to coordinate with your team and give advice to new players, yes or no?"
Re: Newbie mode - Prog - 2008-12-05
I don't think any pause at the beginning is necessery. In publics the advantage for being faster is not that relevant, so new players can without any further problems check the weapons/items (and writing the commands really needs no time at all). It would be annoying in a game with only players knowing bt quite well to wait 30 sec at the beginning of each game.
Re: Newbie mode - HK416 - 2008-12-05
i dindt read ur whole post qweq, ur posts are so freaking long, but i got the delay part in the beginning, so this is my opinion.
a delay wud b great for new players... but 30 sec wud b to much.
but how about this, in "normal" mode, there is 30 sec delay. And in cusom mode, u can choose a "no delay mode". This wud help noobs get more in the game, and maybe fewer leavers...
But also, dota is a no dl map tho. I dont understand why not BT are?
<3
Re: Newbie mode - Althend - 2008-12-05
DerSatan Wrote:honestly, who would ever chose "newbie mode" in the beginning? i think the best way of learning is playing normal, losing hard and seeing what went wrong. additionally, theres a help system which already tells you to get a tank and a weapon, and if you dont, your teammates will tell you more or less friendly.
People doesn't do that. I would choose newbie mode in public game since it doesn't really change the game itself but can really increase the fun of new players.
@Qweq
I agree with the break at beginning but i disagree about your idea that noob are stupid people unable to look at stats of weapon, there is nothing to calculate.
And i have never seen a noob waiting 5 minutes to get his weapon.
Re: Newbie mode - ChronicStoned - 2008-12-05
well i like the delay idea
it happens nearly every second public game!
example: 3people top, 1 down, noone in midd (i prefer playing 4on4/only host 4on4)
the other team has 2 people midd and 1 on each side
--> midd players reach lvl 3 before anybody can attack them because (in public!) noone wants to leav "his" path
in worst case new players will follow you with a tinker and without a weapon
or one team overruns a cp with 3 players because noone wants/can port there
i think the delay is a good idea but 30 seconds are too long, 15 or 20 should be enough,
especialy for typing the commands(-e, -w, -liga, ...)
is it possible to turn off the effects(weather, ...) in the map itself?
so you won't have to enter the commands
Re: Newbie mode - horselance - 2008-12-05
As a pro, I don't want a delay. Because every second is important in game:
I randomize my tank and get 150 gold bonus to get battle 15 sec before my enemy. Otherwise 150 gold means nothing to me.
As a noob, I would want a delay for others to see what is going on around. To think of weapons, tanks, lanes. I personally hate games that assume you are already pro and just start game in 5 sec. You are a wet fish in game, looking around. You buy something random to get in battle, and notice that you bought the worst thing you could have..
If there will be such "noob mode", this delay can be there.
Re: Newbie mode - GooglyBoogly - 2008-12-06
In a n00b mode I would also want the force income to be higher, but the bounty lower. (to roughly balance)
This would allow players to 'catch up' a little easier
Re: Newbie mode - qweqqweq - 2008-12-06
let me just ask everyone one thing pelase.
Do you really want to see, "battle tanks noobie mode" on your game list when you're looking for a game?
Re: Newbie mode - bangyouredead - 2008-12-06
We could call it pre-pro, beginner, or even "qweq mode" would work.
I was thinking of a bang mode, where everyone loses 10 seconds in (to get it over with quickly), bang flashes across the screen (by that I mean a picture of me flashing would go across the screen), and then the game crashes.
Re: Newbie mode - Shift1 - 2008-12-06
Quote:We could call it pre-pro, beginner, or even "qweq mode" would work.Yeah bang, youre the real thing.
just one thing: Stop referring to somebodys skill (true or not), when that person is just putting an idea in. (or at least thats my opinion)
About your idea: As horselance allready mentioned, the idea of randomizing a tank would be pretty useless because of that mode.
But what about this: 1.) you can choose, as allready said, "nonoob"(or whatever) mode and so the delay wont take place in intern games
2.) After starting game and wothout enabling this "nonoob" thing the following could hapen:
-you choose/random your tank
-you cant leave the base
- after maybe..25 sec the creeps spawn, and you start getting money, also you can leave the base now
The conclusion would be that everybody has enough time to at least buy what the others buyed or to get a general view over the map, those who have enough gold (like after random) can still port before the others arrive
Only thing bad is the laneproblem cause if you cant leave the base you cant say "hey fucker, let me alone here" ^^
But i think it owuld be better then now for most beginners and cause you have time you can also tell them not to go on one lane together.
Also, if there are baricades or whatever only on the pathes out of the base most guys will probably stay in front of them, waiting for the release and so everybody could see where which tank is trying to go to.
Re: Newbie mode - Exodus - 2008-12-06
I don't think that such mode will help in this situation. I think there are already more things implemented to help new players than in some other maps. Besides the fact that such a mode would most likely only be chosen very rarely, it will not help new players to learn the game. Just because you give every player the right things to play, this doesn't mean he will make good use out of it. I've seen a lot of players who sold their tank for a even cheaper one, just to test it. Or they sold their weapons just to buy one which is 200 gold more expensive.
When somebody wants to learn the game, he's able to do so by reading the tooltips of the Pilot and the tips and by watching the other players. The players who don't buy anything are only a small minority and I don't think that they will do better when having the right tank and weapon, they will just have a higher bounty for the other players.
Re: Newbie mode - Shift1 - 2008-12-06
yes ure right with that. but you still got some points wrong exo.
I ment there should be a mode to DISABLE the 30sec delay- not that you can enable it, it would be in everygame without enabling the "nodelay"mode
also, that noobs would buy cheaper tanks, wrong things etc. would still happen, and its good like that because wheres the sence in a game you can play from the very beginning.
Still i think a little time at start, specialy in public games, would help the community to grow, because i for my own often made the experience, that beginners suffer under the qucikstart - its not only that they have more time to buy weapons etc, its also just makes the beginning more "relaxed". Well its hard for me to describe what i mean by that but i think its a fact that a only very few "bt-startes" like the start of the game.
I hope i could help a little ^^
Shift
Re: Newbie mode - Exodus - 2008-12-06
Well, I didn't say anything about the delay. It should be no problem to just disable the first wave of creeps, which would result in a delay of 20 seconds.
Re: Newbie mode - Shift1 - 2008-12-06
but it would make randoming a take pretty senceless woudlnt it?
thats why i built up the whole idea ^^
Re: Newbie mode - Prog - 2008-12-06
Exodus Wrote:Well, I didn't say anything about the delay. It should be no problem to just disable the first wave of creeps, which would result in a delay of 20 seconds.
I don't like that, as being faster should result in a little advantage. There is no need to edit bt in favor of slower players, as it is in my opinion a way to flat the skill differences (which results in the long run in less competitiveness), so at least the option to disable that delay is a must-have for me (which must not be in the custom mode selection, as this creates delay as well).
Re: Newbie mode - Shift1 - 2008-12-06
i allready said that before prog, that was part of my idea and without that function i would rather support the current gamestyle. But with it, i´d say a change like that cant harm bt, but might support it a lil