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+--- Thread: Gazlow Tank (/showthread.php?tid=1900)
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Gazlow Tank - TKF - 2008-08-06
Gazlow Tank
![[Image: models_5275_screenshot_tnb.jpg]](http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/resource_images/6/models_5275_screenshot_tnb.jpg)
This tank will be surely used in near future in BT, but with what abilties
Hp: 12000
Price: 12000
Armor: 12
Speed: 300
Goblin Shot (Q) - Active - Fires a explosive tank shot which does damage and does half damage on targets within 250 AOE. 1500 Range.
lv1: 400 Damage
lv2: 800 Damage
lv3: 1200 Damage
lv4: 1600 Damage
lv5: 2000 Damage
Explosive Barrel (W) - Active
Drops a barrel of unstable explosives from the back of the tank, and kinda work like a mine. It's only exploding when a tanks drive over it. In addition, it can be remotely activated at any time and even deactivate the auto mine triggering by turning on/off the auto explosion skill. (If a strong tanks come, you can deactivate it, and activate it again when the weak tank comes) It's invisible by nature. Can be defused!
lv1: 640 Damage
lv2: 1280 Damage
lv3: 1920 Damage
lv4: 2560 Damage
lv5: 3200 Damage
Goblin Armor (E) - Passive - 5% damage reduction pr level
OR
Goblin Turbo (E) - Passive - 3% damage reduction pr level and 15 + speed pr level
Rocket Barrage (R) - Active - Fires a barrage of rockets, which explodes on impact when hitting any enemy unit, or until it reaches it's max range. Has 1200 range. Each single rocket does 200 damage, and flyes in a random direction forward and does half damage against structures. (It's highly unlikely that all rockets hits 1 target, unless it's in close range)
lv1: 16 rockets
lv2: 20 rockets
lv3: 24 rockets
lv4: 28 rockets
lv5: 32 rockets
[attachment=0]
I'm sure Exodus would on his own, made some skills which did not include tank shot skill at all. I know my skills isn't so creative, but I think explosive barrel fit for this tank. Only suggesting ideas that perfectly fits the models antimations and looks.
Re: Gazlow Tank - italyrools - 2008-08-06
I think the goblin shot should do more upfront damage on lvl 1 and 2, afterall, demon tanks shot gets 1k damage first level (I think?). The rest of it I really like. Except maybe make all the spells a bit more powerful, since it costs more than demon, and the spells seem a bit weaker to me.
Re: Gazlow Tank - kittyonmyfoot - 2008-08-06
I'd need a stun for goblin turbo or rocket barrage to be useful. So in that respect i'd prefer that the goblin shot be more like the emp torps for the anti-grav. It'd be like you switched the cluster and the ultimate on the light tank.
Turning on and off the explosive barrel is too much. That means I can lay a mine field at someone's door with them all off and then when the enemy bunches up just turn them all on at the same time... or at least 12 of them... then march in unhindered. If I've been able to push most of the game then it could even be the first time that set them off.
The other possiblility is to put them by the tank side shops and turn them off. Then If I see someone sell a tank for a tink for the next upgrade... turn them on... then the Tink has to run the gauntlet to get back.
Re: Gazlow Tank - Gammagulp - 2008-08-06
Laying such Barrel mines is ok for a 12k Tank.
That Goblin Shot deals really little damage for that price, but I could live with it, if the cooldown is short and the mana casts low enough so i could use it often.
I dont like the Goblin Armor or Goblin Turbo, beacause the Shrededer or Goblin tank, which cost much less than 12.000 have got the same Skill, and compared to the transparent armor of the earth Tank for 7.500Gold ...
Since Gazlow is a great engineer (maybe one of the best ^^) - Why not giving the Tank a Repair Rate or instant Repair.
Maybe
Instant (with mana costs) - somethink like emergency Repair (or even auto Repair if the Tanks Hp get lower than 15% and you cannot activate it by yourself, but with a better repair then)
lvl1 1000HP
lvl2 1600Hp
lvl3 2200Hp
lvl4 2800Hp
lvl5 3400 Hp
Or
Repair over Time (Gazlow Repair)
lvl1 28HP/sec
lvl2 44HP/sec
lvl3 60HP/sec
lvl4 76HP/sec
lvl5 92HP/sec
Did I say - that I like that model ?
Re: Gazlow Tank - k-bones - 2008-08-06
Emergency repair looks almost like sky fort's armor, just delayed in time and not protecting you from accumulated damage (like mass darkness cannon or sth else long-cd)
Barrage seems to be quite useless in some situations like defending cp, since it fires only forward. You would have to turn in right direction (which already sounds ridiculous) and then hope your enemies won't move or haven't already killed you when you were spinning
I know Exodus wanted that skill to be sth different than HT ulti or Goblin's shockwave.A good idea would be to set a total damage pool, divide it into 12 rockets, and make them hit random targets.
Re: Gazlow Tank - Gammagulp - 2008-08-06
And what happens if you activate a mine for 3200 damage, but got 20% Hp left - so 2400HP ?
The emegency repair wouldnt be activated - even if a weak exploder comes.
With that 12 rockets do you mean a 12.5seconds phonix fire ability with 1 rocket / second dealing damage ?
For that Repair very much could be possible, maybe let the tank stand still or even it could not use abilities, but is repaired very fast in a short time, because Gazlow start his repairs and dont sit on the controlls for short :mrgreen:
Re: Gazlow Tank - TKF - 2008-08-06
Wow much response!
italyrools Wrote:I think the goblin shot should do more upfront damage on lvl 1 and 2, afterall, demon tanks shot gets 1k damage first level (I think?). The rest of it I really like. Except maybe make all the spells a bit more powerful, since it costs more than demon, and the spells seem a bit weaker to me.
Demon shot does 350 dmg pr level + stun
Goblin shot does 400 dmg pr level + splash dmg
Gammagulp Wrote:That Goblin Shot deals really little damage for that price, but I could live with it, if the cooldown is short and the mana casts low enough so i could use it often.
It does splash instead of stun. It can do more dmg, but 400 pr level isn't unbalanced compared to demon tanks ability.
kittyonmyfoot Wrote:I'd need a stun for goblin turbo or rocket barrage to be useful. So in that respect i'd prefer that the goblin shot be more like the emp torps for the anti-grav. It'd be like you switched the cluster and the ultimate on the light tank.The rocket barrage shoots individually shots (in triggers: 1 independent rocket dummy for each shot). In that case maybe the Goblin shot could have stun or slowing effect. The Goblin shot is supposed to be based of Acid Bomb (for the splash). It can slow the tanks instead of stun.
kittyonmyfoot Wrote:Turning on and off the explosive barrel is too much. That means I can lay a mine field at someone's door with them all off and then when the enemy bunches up just turn them all on at the same time... or at least 12 of them... then march in unhindered. If I've been able to push most of the game then it could even be the first time that set them off.This is a 12k tank. 6 times more expensive than the demolisher, and the skill is only 2 times stronger than the mines. I think the control feature would cover the big power gap of 3 times mine power loss compared to price. It's a minimum. Also allows you to damage structures by remote without having a defuser yourself.
Gammagulp Wrote:I dont like the Goblin Armor or Goblin Turbo, beacause the Shrededer or Goblin tank, which cost much less than 12.000 have got the same Skill, and compared to the transparent armor of the earth Tank for 7.500Gold ...Speed and armor skills doesn't get better for each level. Also it's a goblin tank, so why not goblin turbo? However other ability suggestions is nice...
Gammagulp Wrote:Since Gazlow is a great engineer (maybe one of the best ^^) - Why not giving the Tank a Repair Rate or instant Repair.Maybe this can replace the passive goblin turbo skill. Maybe allows it to target self or other tanks
Maybe
Instant (with mana costs) - somethink like emergency Repair (or even auto Repair if the Tanks Hp get lower than 15% and you cannot activate it by yourself, but with a better repair then)
lvl1 1000HP
lvl2 1600Hp
lvl3 2200Hp
lvl4 2800Hp
lvl5 3400 Hp
Or
Repair over Time (Gazlow Repair)
lvl1 28HP/sec
lvl2 44HP/sec
lvl3 60HP/sec
lvl4 76HP/sec
lvl5 92HP/sec
Did I say - that I like that model ?
. It could repair 650hp pr level over 8 seconds.__________________
Exodus may need good ideas of creative abilities to put on this tank, so I was only suggestion simple abilities. I think it need 1 direct tank shot skill. Others can be unique. Other ability suggestions is welcome.
Re: Gazlow Tank - k-bones - 2008-08-06
Gammagulp Wrote:With that 12 rockets do you mean a 12.5seconds phonix fire ability with 1 rocket / second dealing damage ?
I mean something like Rocket Hail - all rockets at once, firing at random targets in range (possibly hitting one target with more than one), not only front like in original idea.
I also think the damage per rocket should change with lvl instead of multiplying them. 36 low-dmg rockets is more like creepkill (and even for them 200 is no problem). My version would look like this: 8 or 12 rockets, 6400 overall dmg at lvl5. And don't you think it's a bit low? I have to check it but probably frost tank's ulti pwns this. Maybe 30-50% splash would balance this (and it fits the Gazlow style too :mrgreen: )
Re: Gazlow Tank - TKF - 2008-08-06
I think the ultimate is very overpowered, since it does 3200 total damage at lv1, and 6400 damage at lv5. It need to be nerfed instead, even if the single rocket doesn't home, they do such damage against a single structure at 100 range. Against tanks at 1200 range, they do perhaps 1200 damage, while damaging other targets for remaining damage (Did I mention each of these 200dmg rockets do 200 AOE splash?). It does LOTS of damage. Also it's the ultimate with longest range ingame. I don't know any ultis with the great range of 1200.
And it's not phönix fire based, it's dummy based. (The rocket is a flying ward unit, since weapons doesn't target wards)
________________
And here's the model of explosive barrel mine.
[attachment=0][attachment=1]
Re: Gazlow Tank - k-bones - 2008-08-07
My general concern is that they fire only forward. On the other hand totally random shooting would make this useless, so probably homing would be a better choice.
Still think that fewer, but more powerful rockets fit better a 12k tank. Maybe after some changes the dmg will be too big, but let's leave the numbers balance for later.
What about releasing a test map version for this tank (without liga option etc)?
Re: Gazlow Tank - Gammagulp - 2008-08-07
What I like here is, that this tank is not the usual I go to close combat, so I only use Poison Magic 555 Range Style (like demon or maybe frost robot) in that price class.
If i could destroy a building fast with it, why not reduce the building damge by 50% or so.
I think if that skill really is just usable in the moving direcion it could be dificult to use it in "hot" situations with guys teleporting or if you want to retreat. If you try to get back to CP you will not be able to emergency use this ultimate like some other tanks can. Click and watch :mrgreen: .
Why not comparing the damage with the Frost robot Ultimate since he costs only 1k more. This Ulti has lower range, but a good splash and really nice damage. (How much damage can he inflict with the Ice Shards Ulti within 3 seconds holding after the Ice Prison ??? maybe 5000 or 6000 too or ?)
As it is now I think the ultimate would work like the follwoning:
Infront of the enemy base or stacking enemies it is a quiet lethal long range attack. In the field enemies in more than 800 or even 1000 range can can doge that ulti by moving out of the shoting direction if you start to cast/fire, so you get only minor damage. If the enemy is closer maybe you will be interrupted by some kind of stun. If you are to heavily damaged most players use teleporter (so you have got already a 12k tank).
It is the same with the fire of the Sky tank. If you stand still it is really big damage, but speedy tanks sometimes only stay only 0.5-1seconds in the flames.
So the only big problem is the siege of a base. Tha means just damage vs Buliding should be lowered and maybe the rocket damage just a bit if that is to strong afterwards. maybe only 150 or 170 damage/Rocket.
The problem of the Goblin turbo would be, that if you already bought speed earlier since this is a nearly late game tank; you waste a lot of money if you could not stack it with the goblin turbo speed (I made that mistake with goblin yesterday :oops: , first time I tried to get speed with the goblin turbo - in more than 1 year gaming
hock: ).To the reapir: Maybe let it disable a Tank (self or friendly) in Melee Range, but repair it fast,
So you stun yourself (or teammates) and are helpless vs Exploder or teleporting enemies, but maybe repair 600HP/second
Like
600HP+100Repair/Lvl / Second repair
Lvl1 2.5 (1500)
Lvl2 3.2 (2240)
Lvl3 3.9 (3120)
Lvl4 4.6 (4140)
Lvl5 5.3 (5300)
Maybe change values. Dont know if this is too much, but remember the following if you use a repair skill I Think it should be at least as good as a damage skill -- compare light tank, because you then the damage skill of the enemy with the same damage like your healing counter it and even does the damage instantly and not over time.
The ammount of repair I supposed here is quiet big, because you cannot move, teleport use troopcommand and so on for more than 5 seconds at lvl 5.
Re: Gazlow Tank - k-bones - 2008-08-07
The lack of homing on ulti will be quite a weak point of Gazlow. For example, if an enemy tank is covered by a very little number of creeps (let's say 5) probably all the rockets that could hit it go into the creeps and maybe not even destroy them, while the enemy retreats to avoid splash. That makes the skill waaaay much 'avoidable' than AOEs.
Another situation - you chase a dying enemy off your cp. Even with 1200 range there can be a little chance to kill him because he can simply make turns left and right! o_0 What's funnier, when you tp near him you can still accidentally fire all the rockets in the air without doing any real damage. -.-
Really, in Btanks nobody wants to aim by himself
Re: Gazlow Tank - TKF - 2008-08-07
It's not a thin line of rockets, it's a thick wall of rockets! It can however have a minor homing system, but only within 400 range of each individual rocket, so rockets would follow the tank until the rocket range limit, thus ignoring the creeps and other targets when it's homing. Maybe up to 1500 range. But the rockets move at speed of 900-1200, so it would be very hard to outrun it.
Other way to make this ability, is like the Goblin Tanks riots, so you can control the missiles yourself (natively they will head randomly forward in you forward direction), but then they should move at 522 speed.
Then it's very lethal, but dodgeable kinda like frost robots blizzard.
Re: Gazlow Tank - Gammagulp - 2008-08-07
Thats really difficult to say...
I think:
522 Speed is to less if the enemy really got 430 till 450 speed.
Homing heros could make it a real hard tank killer.
No Homing, but hitting everything may let it be to unprecise to deal often even less damage than the heavy tanks ultimate at the target you want somehow.
The main question I have is, How long does it take to spawn all 32 Rokets?
If it takes 3 seconds the enemy starts escaping maybe after 1 second, and maybe half of the rockets never have a Chance to damage your opponent -> a nearly 40-50% effective only ultimate then.
I dont know how to balance such things. Maybe try 1100 Rocket Speed and let all rockets be fired after maximum 2 seconds. A homing could get imba - maybe a maximum range of only 250 for attacking heros could be ok (which is really near i suppose).
(You need to test it
)(I think it would be a great counter to troop tactics, which i feel is missing - and infernal for example sometimes is difficult to get it that fast)
Re: Gazlow Tank - TKF - 2008-08-07
In my map I use spawn frequency of 0.08 sec...
Re: Gazlow Tank - Gammagulp - 2008-08-07
Well I think this is good - you would like to kill if I now say 0.07 seconds :mrgreen: .
(Why not testing it vs. frost robot or demon tank wih a bit better Equipment, then you if the ultimate matches the 12k)
Re: Gazlow Tank - k-bones - 2008-08-07
I never ment hero homing, just random unit, tank or building.
Minor homing would be nice, for example activating it after the rockets reach 600 range from Gazlow?
About the first skill - does it deal full dmg to structures? I think it would be ok to give another tank a nice (but not overpowered) building-kill.
Re: Gazlow Tank - TKF - 2008-08-07
All skills can hit buildings, so I think it's need need for structure only ability, all all abilties does decent damage and 100% damage against buildings.
I would like to see what exodus would say in this matter...
Re: Gazlow Tank - Gammagulp - 2008-08-08
You wrote half damage vs buildings in you first Post for the Ultimate oO
Re: Gazlow Tank - TKF - 2008-08-10
Hmmm this is going nowhere....
This tank isn't actual since there are 3 new tank models ingame atm. The earth robot, scout and SF must be balanced first before discussing this new tank. Also the mapper have recently implemented many new tanks, so he will wait a while until these new tank are balanced...
Meanwhile I suggest exodus remove this tank from the map while it's unused, cuz it consumes some unnecessary mapsize.