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+--- Thread: POST YOUR NEW TANKS IDEAS HERE!!! (/showthread.php?tid=2631)
POST YOUR NEW TANKS IDEAS HERE!!! - TKF - 2007-05-17
NEW TANK IDEAS
Post your idea about a new tanks here.
Post a suggested strength, price, speed, type and skills of the tank. You can also be open for possible changes for your suggestion and type more possibilities and suggest more alternative skills you think it may fit into your tank.
Also post your tank model you wish represent your idea if you have found one, with link to screenshots if you have.
If you come up with and extraordinary good idea, maybe Exodus and Bob666 find your idea and/or inspiration useful and put YOUR idea in use in the the BT map.
Your idea should follow those BT standards:
Ability Standards:
Standard abilities
lv 1: 20% effect (10 mana, just an example)
lv 2: 40% effect
lv 3: 60% effect
lv 4: 80% effect
lv 5: 100% effect (50 mana)
Lv 10 abilities
lv 1: 50% effect (40 mana, just an example)
lv 2: 62.5% effect
lv 3: 75% effect
lv 4: 87.5% effect
lv 5: 100% effect (80 mana)
This applies to mana cost as well, but a standard abilities could also cost 12 mp pr level, like the light tanks super repair skill.
Skill damage/effect must be approximately at same amount and comparisonable with the tanks price. For example: A small hover tank (1600) can't have rocket with same strength as heavy tanks Rocket, right? For that will cause unbalance. Also a slow tank must have a slightly more benefit too? The demolisher is dangerous with his mines, which "sort of" compensate for it's low speed.
Also if your tank is an air tank, it's initial hp should be about 20% lower that it's current price in gold. This is the handicap for air units because they have no movement obstacles.
To start the tread, I will show an good example: My idea is...
The Rock Golem Robot (4000) (that really rocks
)Hp: 4000
Price: 4000 gold
Speed: 270
Rock Throw (Q) 1250 cast range (10mp cost pr level)
40 sec cooldown
lv 1: 250 dmg, 1 sec stun
lv 2: 500 dmg, 1 sec stun
lv 3: 750 dmg, 1 sec stun
lv 4: 1000 dmg, 1 sec stun
lv 5: 1250 dmg, 1 sec stun
Ground Punch (W) 350 AOE (10mp cost pr level)
(Ground Only), 40 sec cooldown.
lv 1: 250 dmg, 50% slow for 3 sec
lv 2: 500 dmg, 50% slow for 3 sec
lv 3: 750 dmg, 50% slow for 3 sec
lv 4: 1000 dmg, 50% slow for 3 sec
lv 5: 1250 dmg, 50% slow for 3 sec
Mud Web (E) (10mp cost pr level)
(Air Only), 50 sec cooldown
lv 1: Webs an air tank for 1 sec
lv 2: Webs an air tank for 2 sec
lv 3: Webs an air tank for 3 sec
lv 4: Webs an air tank for 4 sec
lv 5: Webs an air tank for 5 sec
Ultimate ability
Rock Shower (R) (Like light tanks Swarm rocket skill, but with lot of rocks instead and a good range, 1000), 50 sec cooldown
a bit bigger AOE that light tanks swarm rockets
lv 1: 700 dmg, 40 mp
lv 2: 875 dmg, 50 mp
lv 3: 1050 dmg, 60 mp
lv 4: 1225 dmg, 70 mp
lv 5: 1500 dmg, 80 mp
Tank-Cannon is default weapon skill
...
- Bob666 - 2007-05-17
hmmm... first i will finish the antigrav, but for this tank, i think, it is not very different from other tanks, perhaps other abilities would be nice, scripted ones
- TKF - 2007-05-17
I forgot to say 5 armor.
A good ability doesn't necessary need to be scripted.
When I suggested the rock golems abilities, I only thought on skills that could match rock golems spell animations.I might have suggested to high dmg on my ultimate... :? Heavy tank does 800 dmg, but costs 5500. Lightning Tank does cost 4000 and it's ultimate does 800 if I'm not mistaken, so maybe start at 700 dmg at lv 1 is ok?
- Bob666 - 2007-05-17
well, the balancing is what we have to do, i think, not you, so no problem, how high the values are... more important is, that you say if the abilities strengt should be stun or damage or any other effect... you did it right
- TKF - 2007-05-19
Bob666 Wrote:well, the balancing is what we have to do, i think, not you, so no problem, how high the values are... more important is, that you say if the abilities strengt should be stun or damage or any other effect... you did it right
Well I will show ability level increase calculations with 2 of the new Antigrav tank ablilities
Well for the EMP skill for the antigrav tank, It affects all and for each level damage AND stun time is increased. I find it unbalancing with both increasing like that. I Calculated both stun and dmg to find it's incremental issue. As you well knows, all tanks stun ability duration is not changed when leveling, but the Antigrav's EMP stun AND dmg is increased for each level, creating more efficient increase in efficiency for each level.
Only dmg - Calculated from lv5 - 500dmg = 100%
lv1 = 20%
lv2 = 40%
lv3 = 60%
lv4 = 80%
lv5 = 100%
Only Stun - Calculated from lv5 - 2.6s = 100%
lv1 = 38%
lv2 = 53%
lv3 = 70%
lv4 = 84%
lv5 = 100%
Combined stun and dmg
That makes ability efficiency with stun and dmg calculated
both dmg and stun - Calculated from lv1; 100dmg and 1 sec stun = 20%
lv1 - 100dmg, 1s stun = 20%
lv2 - 200dmg, 1.4s stun = 56%
lv3 - 300dmg, 1.8s stun = 108%
lv4 - 400dmg, 2.2s stun = 178%
lv5 - 500dmg, 2.6s stun = 260%
With stable increase in ADDITION to stun increase, this ability gets way better for each level.
Also this skill affects ALL units, so quite imba for the antigrav.
To prevent a parabel increase of efficiency, I suggest emp dmg like this to make a stable increase in efficiency, if you want to keep the same stun duration; or you can make a compromise with more dmg and less stun.
lv1 - 100dmg, 1s stun = 20%
lv2 - 140dmg, 1.4s stun = 39,2% ~ 40%
lv3 - 165dmg, 1.8s stun = 59,4% ~ 60%
lv4 - 180dmg, 2.2s stun = 79,2% ~ 80%
lv5 - 195dmg, 2.6s stun = 101,4% ~ 100%
I multiply dmg and second stun, divided sum by 5, to get the percentage.
If you want to keep the same dmg, stun would be 1 sec on all levels.
I could do same calculation on the jump skill, but I assume the tanks fatness in flight takes almost about 200 range, so it quite balanced if I assume right. Calculating percentage from lv1. 600 range = 20%
lv1 - 600 = 20%
lv2 - 1000 = 33,3%
lv3 - 1400 = 46,7%
lv4 - 1800 = 60%
lv5 - 2200 = 73,3%
I think these are the right jump range values.
Otherwise I find the other abilities balanced during leveling
- Bob666 - 2007-05-19
if you want to calculate something, then look at all values, not only at damage and stun, and compare it with other abilities... 100 damage level 1, 200 damage level 5? who will then update that ability?!
- TKF - 2007-05-20
I think the EMP is the only ability which increases stun time with levels. The rocket stuns for 1 sec at any level. Heavy tank does only 0.5 sec, but has 2000 range. Stun allows you to catch up and longer the stun, more likely the outcome would be lethal.
More stun time, more time to kill that stunned tank
What if 0.5 sec stun for each level? or 0.6?
- DerSatan - 2007-05-20
0.5 seconds would be possible... 0.6 resulted in 3.0 on lvl 5... too much
- TKF - 2007-05-21
Yeah 0.5 sec pr level would make EMP skill balanced for each level
. also it would perfectly fit in with stable increment. __________________________________
But I wonder why the jump skill start with 600? then 400+ each level?
- Bob666 - 2007-05-21
look at the teleporter, its the same... a very short start range is simply annoying to use, you even may be slower than if you not use it
- TKF - 2007-05-24
My new idea - this air tank is available at the tank cnstruction hall
Air Scout
Model: http://hiveworkshop.com/resources_new/models/2964/
haven't found proper icon for it.
Havent checked the animations yet.Air Scout - Air Fighter
Hp: 1650
Price: 2000 gold
Speed: 300
Armor: 2
Heatseeking Gemini Missile (Q) 1300 cast range, deadly vs air, very fast missile (3000 speed) (13mp cost pr level)
(Air Only), 60 sec cooldown.
lv 1: 500 dmg, 1 sec stun
lv 2: 1000 dmg, 1 sec stun
lv 3: 1500 dmg, 1 sec stun
lv 4: 2000 dmg, 1 sec stun
lv 5: 2500 dmg, 1 sec stun
Sweep Scan (W) (8mp cost pr level), 45 sec cooldown.
lv 1: 400 scan area for 3 sec
lv 2: 800 scan area for 6 sec
lv 3: 1200 scan area for 9 sec
lv 4: 1600 scan area for 12 sec
lv 5: 2000 scan area for 15 sec
Jet Propulsion (Passive) (E)
lv 1: 30 + speed bonus
lv 2: 60 + speed bonus
lv 3: 90 + speed bonus
lv 4: 120 + speed bonus
lv 5: 150 + speed bonus
Ultimate ability
Energy Web (R) (sort of Arial Shackles, but work on ground units too) Locks an enemy tank/air tank in position, but the air scout must hold it, if used on air, they will fall to the ground while beeing held by the energy web. takes 200 dmg pr sec, 50 sec cooldown
lv 1: 3 s duration, 40 mp
lv 2: 3.75 s duration, 50 mp
lv 3: 4.5 s duration, 60 mp
lv 4: 4.75 s duration, 70 mp
lv 5: 6 s duration, 80 mp
Tank-Cannon is default weapon skill
- Saiyuki - 2007-05-24
model looks fine but has noch attack/spell animation.
but sweep scan is a bit imba...
area = 2000 for 15 sec?
perhaps lowering the area and the durence but given it another effekt, like disabling all enemy systems for the time used for casting?
- WWW_Shadow - 2007-05-24
500 dmg at the first lvl , that means with a mate you can make 2 rockets on an heli at beginning and it would be killed and on lvl 4 only 1 rocket to kill , i think this is to imba
- Saiyuki - 2007-05-24
yeah maybe decreasing range, but increasing casting time. ^^
- TKF - 2007-05-24
Yeah you're right Saiyuki; I agree maybe I did overdo the Anti air missile skill dmg, maybe 375 dmg pr level for 12 mp pr level. This is 2000 gold anti-air tank, so too powerful skill suggestion for such cheap tank. My plan was to make a Anti-air super missile. It's very bad this model doesn't have attack animation for firing the rocket. I suggested the sweep scan (It scans right where it stands, so cloned "potion of omniscience") to make the flyer see mines, smoke gen, wards and invisible traders, but it can be changed to another ability. Maybe to imba level increase there, and 300 range, 2 sec reveal time pr level fits much better.
Maybe Defuse and detect ability instead, but maybe too imba. Maybe engine lockdown for 1 sec pr level (66% slow).
I like the AA missile skill, jet propulsion and energy web ultimate, but was unsure if the sweep scan skill suits it good. Also I may have chose a bad model too...
______________________
Changed suggestion:
Heatseeking Gemini Missile (Q) 1100 cast range, deadly vs air. (12mp cost pr level)
(Air Only), 55 sec cooldown.
lv 1: 375 dmg, 1 sec stun
lv 2: 750 dmg, 1 sec stun
lv 3: 1125 dmg, 1 sec stun
lv 4: 1500 dmg, 1 sec stun
lv 5: 1875 dmg, 1 sec stun
Sweep Scan (W) (8mp cost pr level), 45 sec cooldown.
lv 1: 300 scan area for 2 sec
lv 2: 600 scan area for 4 sec
lv 3: 900 scan area for 6 sec
lv 4: 1200 scan area for 8 sec
lv 5: 1500 scan area for 10 sec
Alternative secondary skill
Engine Lockdown (W) Slow target hero with 66% reduced speed (10mp cost pr level), 50 sec cooldown.
lv 1: 1 sec
lv 2: 2 sec
lv 3: 3 sec
lv 4: 4 sec
lv 5: 5 sec
Alternative secondary skill 2 - replacement of sweep scan
Flash Shock (W) (Dispel) Casting range 650. Damages and removes invisibility for units, wards and mines withing 450 AOE. Removes invisibility and buffs withing range (10mp cost pr level), 50 sec cooldown. (Visible flashy dispel effect on invisible enemy mines too!)
lv 1: 100 dmg, detonates mines withing 30 range of casting point (where you target the skill)
lv 2: 200 dmg, detonates mines withing 60 range of casting point
lv 3: 300 dmg, detonates mines withing 90 range of casting point
lv 4: 400 dmg, detonates mines withing 120 range of casting point
lv 5: 500 dmg, detonates mines withing 150 range of casting point
I like this alternative ability best so far.
Ultimate ability
Energy Web (R) (sort of Arial Shackles, but work on ground units too) Locks an enemy tank/air tank in position, but the air scout must hold it, if used on air, they will fall to the ground while beeing held by the energy web. Does 80 dmg pr sec (20 dmg pr 0.25 sec), casting range 450, 60 sec cooldown
lv 1: 3 s duration, for a total of 240 dmg, 40 mp
lv 2: 3.75 s duration, for a total of 300 dmg, 50 mp
lv 3: 4.5 s duration, for a total of 360 dmg, 60 mp
lv 4: 5.25 s duration, for a total of 420 dmg, 70 mp
lv 5: 6 s duration, for a total of 480 dmg, 80 mp
I may need a better model, with fire animation for the rocket ( I didn't check the model anim when I suggested the model
)
- Saiyuki - 2007-05-24
some additions:
Sweep Scan (W) Reveals all hidden objects in targeted area, absorbing mana from any tank in the area. (9 Mana per level, 18 seconds cooldown)
lv 1: 300 scan area for 2 sec, absorbing 4 Mana
lv 2: 600 scan area for 4 sec, absorbing 8 Mana
lv 3: 900 scan area for 6 sec, absorbing 12 Mana
lv 4: 1200 scan area for 8 sec, absorbing 16 Mana
lv 5: 1500 scan area for 10 sec, absorbing 20 Mana
____________________________________________________________
Engine Lockdown (W) Slowing target hero and melts mana. Lasts 10 Seconds. (7Mana per Level, 25 seconds cooldown)
lv 1: speed reduction by 5%, 0.5 mana lost per second.
lv 2: Speed reduction by 9%, 1 mana lost per second.
lv 3: Speed reduction by 13%, 1.5 mana lost per second.
lv 4: Speed reduction by 17%, 2 mana lost per second.
lv 5: Speed reduction by 21%, 2.5 mana lost per second.
____________________________________________________________
how is this? ^^
- TKF - 2007-05-24
yeah nice, but I was thinking on removing the invisibility with dispel feature with Flash Shock but gonna rn it to Shock Scan (W)
Other wise Engine Lockdown is a very nice alternative, I think I maybe (only maybe) exclude Sweep Scan, but cannot decide which one suits better, It was very bad speed reduction on your engine lockdown suggestion of yours, (outrun still outruns that) maybe more mp cost and better slow effect, but only 5 sec duration to balance that.
________________________________
What about this
Engine Lockdown (W) Slowing target hero and melts mana. Lasts 5 Seconds. (9 Mana per Level, 40 seconds cooldown). The tanks does have 1.2 mana regen, so lv 2 will start reversing it with -0.4 mana reg.
lv 1: Speed reduction by 7%, 0.8 mana lost per second.
lv 2: Speed reduction by 14%, 1.6 mana lost per second.
lv 3: Speed reduction by 21%, 2.4 mana lost per second.
lv 4: Speed reduction by 28%, 3.2 mana lost per second.
lv 5: Speed reduction by 35%, 4 mana lost per second.
Alternative secondary
Shock Scan (W) (Dispel) Casting range 500. Damages and removes invisibility for units, wards and mines withing 450 AOE. Removes invisibility and buffs withing range. This does defuse mines close to the center of the shock. (9 mp cost pr level), 50 sec cooldown. (Visible flashy dispel effect on invisible enemy mines too!)
lv 1: 100 dmg, detonates mines withing 30 range of casting point (where you target the skill)
lv 2: 200 dmg, detonates mines withing 60 range of casting point
lv 3: 300 dmg, detonates mines withing 90 range of casting point
lv 4: 400 dmg, detonates mines withing 120 range of casting point
lv 5: 500 dmg, detonates mines withing 150 range of casting point
Detonation does happen if the mines are in the trigger range. If the player scans first, he see the mines and next time he maybe hits the correct spot. I dunno about mine defusing part of it cause imbalance... :?
- Saiyuki - 2007-05-24
well cause its an air tank speed reduction should really be about at 1/3.
but shock scan... hm... the goblin for 400G got a skill that stund and deals same damage per level... so this should be increased.. detonating mines... only if it effect all units then. (friendly and enemy)
im fine with engine lockdown but unsure about shock scan. ^^
- TKF - 2007-05-26
Well the purpose was to reveal invisible so I added a small dmg, on big area, 450 AOE! Which is a quite large effect area.
Saiyuki Wrote:...but shock scan... hm... the goblin for 400G got a skill that stund and deals same damage per level... so this should be increased.. detonating mines... only if it effect all units then. (friendly and enemy)
Well I understand it does low dmg, compared to it's price on 2000, well the antigrav does 100 dmg pr level on it's EMP skill. But also shock scan can defuse mines in small area and also reveal invisible, simply removed both friendly and hostile buffs on friend or foes (This includes light tank heal, Traders smoke gen, what else... little). Well it barely exists effect that you can dispel, but most it purpose is to reveal mines and invisible units with an scan, that shocks; so it does little dmg on the scan.
Maybe Engine Lockdown.... is a better choice? Need a third opinion...
______________________________
Edit_
Engine Lockdown it will be then...
______________________________
Meanwhile, I got impatient and got a new idea!
WarMech (8500)
Model: Stalker http://hiveworkshop.com/resources_new/models/2804/
It have tauren movements, but look like a cool mech too!
Price: 8500
Hp: 8000
Speed: 330
Armor: 8
Trust Smash (Q) (Ground Only)
Smash a target with your energy staff, dealing heavy damage while smashing the enemy target and make it fly like a heavy Golf ball (Target flyes the same distance angle that the warmech is facing/hitting the target). Stuns target only while in air (No pause shit that stops victims orders). 10 mp cost pr level, 40 sec cooldown.
lv 1: 700 damage, 400 smash distance (This is how far the target will fly after beeing hit)
lv 2: 1400 damage, 600 smash distance
lv 3: 2100 damage, 800 smash distance
lv 4: 2800 damage, 1000 smash distance
lv 5: 3500 damage, 1200 smash distance
Shock Stomp (W)
Releases an energy shock field (Thunder clap anim on caster; lightning strikes on victims) which disables nearby ground and air tanks with long stun duration. Has 300 AOE, does knockback enemy units a little within range. 10 mp cost pr level, 45 sec cooldown. (Reason for the low dmg is for the increased stun for each level)
lv 1: 250 damage, 0.8 sec stun duration
lv 2: 500 damage, 1.6 sec stun duration
lv 3: 750 damage, 2.4 sec stun duration
lv 4: 1000 damage, 3.2 sec stun duration
lv 5: 1250 damage, 4 sec stun duration
Aegis Missile System (E) (Passive) (Air Only)
Additional auto tank weapon system which only target air units. Each rocket does 90 dmg. Has 1000 range. Cooldown decreases with each level.
lv 1: 1 sec cooldown, 90 dmg pr sec
lv 2: 0.5 sec cooldown, 180 dmg pr sec
lv 3: 0.33 sec cooldown, 270 dmg pr sec
lv 4: 0.25 sec cooldown, 360 dmg pr sec
lv 5: 0.2 sec cooldown, 450 dmg pr sec
Ultimate
Disruption Wave (R)
Releases a shockwave from your energy staff weapon, which damage and stuns units and structures in a line. 1 sec stun. (Impale logic) 60 sec cooldown. Casting range 800, effect range 1000.
lv 1: 1200 dmg, 48 mp cost
lv 2: 1500 dmg, 60 mp cost
lv 3: 1800 dmg, 72 mp cost
lv 4: 2100 dmg, 84 mp cost
lv 5: 2400 dmg, 96 mp cost
And default Tank-Cannon Skill (I dunno if both Tank-Cannon and Aegis Missile System work together smoothly)
- TKF - 2007-06-02
sry I doublepost but a new idea
______________________________________
Model: Gnomish Artillery Tank
http://hiveworkshop.com/resources_new/models/1476/
Unfortunaltely the model is huge, 200 kb + with some extra files = 335 kb
Siege Tank (10000)
A tank with pretty long range ultimate and it's skills has pretty long range.
Price: 10000
HP: 9000
Speed: 300
Armor: 10
Rocket hail (Q)
Fires rocket hail to nearby enemies. 1200 range. 10 mp cost pr level, 40 sec cooldown.
lv 1: 340 damage
lv 2: 680 damage
lv 3: 1020 damage
lv 4: 1360 damage
lv 5: 1700 damage
Dual Rockets (W)
Fires 2 rockets on an enemy target. (Dummy fires the second shortly after) Has 1600 range. 0.5 sec stun on each rocket. 10 mp cost pr level, 40 sec cooldown.
lv 1: Each rocket does 230 damage, for a total of 460 damage
lv 1: Each rocket does 460 damage, for a total of 920 damage
lv 1: Each rocket does 690 damage, for a total of 1380 damage
lv 1: Each rocket does 920 damage, for a total of 1840 damage
lv 1: Each rocket does 1150 damage, for a total of 2300 damage
AA Rockets (E) (Air Only)
Fires hail of AA heavy rockets that does lethal damage to nearby air units. has 1000 range. cost 10 mp pr level, 40 sec cooldown.
lv 1: 550 damage
lv 2: 1100 damage
lv 3: 1650 damage
lv 4: 2200 damage
lv 5: 2750 damage
Ultimate
Heavy Bombardments (R) (Ground Only)
Fires multiple artillery shells from afar. 3000 range. (Uses dummies and multiple cluster rockets logic with only 1 shell on each ability. 1 direct hit and the other shells hit nearby target point of spell being cast) Each artillery shell does 375 damage, 2 sec stun and has about 230 AOE. 30 sec cooldown.
lv 1: 4 shells, 1500 total dmg (This will apply if all shells affect the same target), 32 mp cost
lv 2: 5 shells, 1875 total dmg, 40 mp cost
lv 3: 6 shells, 2250 total dmg, 48 mp cost
lv 4: 7 shells, 2625 total dmg, 56 mp cost
lv 5: 8 shells, 3000 total dmg, 64 mp cost
Open for feedbacks. I haven't checked this models animation in editor or how it looks, so...