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+--- Thread: Spawning Factories (/showthread.php?tid=2925)
Spawning Factories - UnifiedDoom - 2011-10-02
Simply put, these things feed A LOT. I find it hard to believe that with 25% bounty/exp spawning factories can be game changers, but my experience would say otherwise. Every time these have been used in the early/midgame by my team, we've lost. I understand building spawning factories during base defense when the rest of the default factories are otherwise dead. Building them early during the lane phase however I find is the same as purposefully feeding and team sabotage. It may not seem like it but this is no better than bombing your own base or dying many many times on purpose over a long period of time. Anyway here's my "experience" on the matter.
[attachment=1241]
http://league.btanks.net/game.php?gameid=20895
Just look at lol's money and level compared to everyone else's when Scolar decides to go factories for our team, ridiculous. He spends most of the game farming Visari's factories on the bottom lane. While the cp is not taken until much later by the time the factories are dead he is far beyond everyone else in terms of level and gold (though i'm sure this is normal for a player of his caliber, the spawning factories played the biggest part in this game) He ends the game with more creeps than anyone on the DEFENDING team. We lose the game of course.
[attachment=1242]
http://league.btanks.net/game.php?gameid=21145
Grey (Promillo) decides to build a spawning factory at the 16 minute mark. It seems to work ok, and he even goes on the offensive so it's largely ignored by our team. He adds another around 10 minutes later. However, slowly but surely the enemy team begins to become much more power than us simply due to these additional creeps (it didn't help that my team LOVED dying). I acknowledge that we would have lost this game for sure anyway but the spawning factory still fed ridiculous amounts of gold to teal and purple. Oh did I mention we lost.
http://league.btanks.net/game.php?gameid=22860
I have no replay of this game since a mcafee popup (which I have now completely erradicated) caused me to drop however it is another clear example to the spawning factories tendency to feed the enemy team. At around 16 minutes Jack_Ice decides to build a spawning factory on his lane and Wupti decides to switch into it. For the next 40 minutes Wupti stays on the top lane farming (and doing NOTHING else), Jack stays up there too. By the time we lose the cp Wupti is level 22 with a ridicous amount of money (with 3-2 stats no less) and everyone else is around level 17 with like (15-10, 24-12, etc. stats). This was caused by ONE just ONE spawning factory. It goes without saying that we lost.
RE: Spawning Factories - EarthR - 2011-10-02
UnitedDoom i know what you trying to write here but the spawn creeps give bounty of 3 or 5 gold so the only problem there is extra experience, you dont get much gold from the spawn creeps
and that game was lost due to the tanks each teams had. You can check the items lagg and wupti had while one had the extra creeps the other didnt and i can up that replay if you want ^^
RE: Spawning Factories - griffin1987 - 2011-10-02
(2011-10-02, 19:27:58)EarthR Wrote: UnitedDoom i know what you trying to write here but the spawn creeps give bounty of 3 or 5 gold so the only problem there is extra experience, you dont get much gold from the spawn creeps
... which might amount to about 25 gold per spawn? Every... 15 seconds? I don't know the actual numbers, so I'm only guessing, but if we take these numbers, it would be:
60 / 15 = 4 times per minute
4*25 = 100 gold per minute
10 minutes = 1000 gold
So, while the numbers might not be correct, and I'm assuming 100% creeping there, there's still another way you can look at it:
Say you're getting about 80% of the creeps on the lane. If you're using AOE skills to creep, that percentage wouldn't change much with more creeps (and even if you aren't, it won't scale linearly I'm sure). So actually you might get a percentage of those "cheap" additional creeps, while - in absolute numbers - also getting more normal creeps. Why is that? Because those additional creeps will kill your own creeps faster, which means that more normal enemy creeps will be there for you to take.
Taking that into account it will certainly be more than 1000 gold in 10 minutes. So, while your enemy just spent 3,5k for a creeping factory, you get:
- more money
- more xp
Your enemy has 3,5k less equip, while you'll have at least a basic magic or iron hull more in 10 minutes than anyone else.
---
Taking that little math example inot account, I think both of you are partially right - but the biggest problem in my oppinion with an early creep factory is the loss of 3,5k for the one who buys / builds it. Think about it - that's one additional Fire Arrows, or a large repair kit + 500, or a steel hull + 1k, or an earth robot while your enemy gets a thunder tank - and that option is probably the most problematic.
RE: Spawning Factories - UnifiedDoom - 2011-10-02
Earth you are right that the tanks made the difference, but what I'm trying to say here is that (as griffin pointed out) the spawning factories even though they have reduced bounty feed a HUGE amount of exp and goldover time especially considering the farming oriented nature of the side lanes already gives them ridiculous advantages. Like I said I had a hard time believing such small increments of gold could change things, but it is true. I've lost all the games I've ever played in which spawning factories were used early/midgame without dead base factories as you've seen above. Also uploading the replay for public viewing would be much appreciated as well if you still have it.
I also agree with Griffin's other point about the cost of a spawning factory, it makes it similar to the "buying laser tower in the first five minutes" problem (that was fixed thank you very much for that) in the fact that your team LOSES money and the oppenent GAINS money. Anything that does that really doesn't make any sense.
RE: Spawning Factories - EarthR - 2011-10-02
I know that 1000 gold over 10 min is a lot but you should look at it this way also with the spawns the laner didnt die as much since extra creeps is huge protection and i am sure if it was other players at lane than wupti or liooooil many players could fed on enemy tanks. its all about who plays there and who is your opponent
anyway here is the replay
RE: Spawning Factories - UnifiedDoom - 2011-10-02
The feed a spawning factory provides is uncontrollable and constant, tank feed can solved by playing defensively (even if it means they outfarm you) and using more defensive items. Wupti never bothered trying to kill jack, he never needed to. The amount of creeps he was getting set him up for the rest of the game. It's similar to a situation if a tinker goes on the side lane, sure he can farm close to 100%, but since he can't push the enemy is going to farm 100% without question.
If theres a skill gap beetween the two players then the better player will be fed more in creeps and tank kills that is true. But an item like spawning factory essentially gives the enemy player money. The arguement shouldn't be "which gives less gold/exp to the good player" because dying is based on skill. The free gold/exp spawning factory provides is a flaw in mechanics.
RE: Spawning Factories - GEN_Schwarzkopf - 2011-10-03
Yes getting spawning factories is a stupid and greedy move early game as it does not help defend CPs.