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League changes with 8.73 - Printable Version

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League changes with 8.73 - eSVau - 2011-03-24

With Battle Tanks 8.73 we introduced some new values we track
  • Assists
  • Support
  • Kill Row count

There are also some slight changes to ELO calculation:
  • A constant has been changed to 1000 (2000 before) which will spread estimated victory chances better
  • game performance which biases game result by game stats has been updated


Re: League changes with 8.73 - Althend - 2011-03-25

Did it change the point per match?

http://league.btanks.net/game.php?gameid=10993

I win only 2 points? :o

Re: League changes with 8.73 - eSVau - 2011-03-25

Althend Wrote:Did it change the point per match?

http://league.btanks.net/game.php?gameid=10993

I win only 2 points? :o
Some points and the rest is love :roll:

ELO score depends on the estimated victory chance, so yes, it has been changed (now to 1000, which would mean a score difference of 1000 is equal to a ~90% victory chance)

Re: League changes with 8.73 - Althend - 2011-03-25

And lose 12 points when my whole team feed and leave (and sabote the game on purpose? Oviously, the two Btnickname are saboting games)

http://league.btanks.net/game.php?gameid=10997



I think it need a fix :p (have to win 6 games to compensate one lost?)

Re: League changes with 8.73 - LIoOoOoIL - 2011-03-25

thats really a bit redicoulas, a win with earning 2.x points... with our elo.

althend u need to win like 20 games, without loosing to reach me again 8) :lol:

Re: League changes with 8.73 - BENNIE.FM - 2011-03-25

[quote="LIoOoOoIL"]thats really a bit redicoulas, a win with earning 2.x points... with our elo.

althend u need to win like 20 games, without loosing to reach me again 8) :lol:[/quote

This is just stupid i don't even see the point in playing espically for loooool he loose 1 game he needs 6 games to make it back what a joke.

Re: League changes with 8.73 - Althend - 2011-03-25

I am not even sure that I should try to attmpt 2 games to get rank 2 againBig Grin

Re: League changes with 8.73 - Prog - 2011-03-25

Changing the formula without a league reset is certainly not a good idea. Regardless if the formula is better now (I don't know if it is).

Re: League changes with 8.73 - Althend - 2011-03-25

And -10 points for impossible gameBig Grin (3v5 with feeders :o)

So following the new equation and if there is a reset, the spread of points between player would be lower and then the real cap would be something like 1600 elo? :p

Re: League changes with 8.73 - FirePhoenix - 2011-03-25

Haha Althend :lol:

That's why I never play the LeagueTongue

Re: League changes with 8.73 - BENNIE.FM - 2011-03-26

major
Althend Wrote:And -10 points for impossible gameBig Grin (3v5 with feeders :o)

So following the new equation and if there is a reset, the spread of points between player would be lower and then the real cap would be something like 1600 elo? :p

just stupid at least restart league if your going to do this what prog said

@the new formula there is just to much risk playing once near the top you get two points for a win fighting with a noob team an then -12 for another unskilled team that sucks hard

Re: League changes with 8.73 - eSVau - 2011-03-26

That 2-points-setting which althend got is outdated - currently he would have got 5.5 points in that game.

Re: League changes with 8.73 - Prog - 2011-03-26

Which does not change the fact that introducing new formulas without a reset is just a bad idea. (It's even worse for the ones who lost a lot due to the last change because they just happened to play at the wrong time.) I really don't understand the reasoning behind it (if there is any).

Re: League changes with 8.73 - GEN_Schwarzkopf - 2011-03-26

Every time a reset occurs balancing becomes utter chaos. The whole point of ELO is a self-learning balancing system. The longer it goes without reset the better it works.

From the feedback I've seen the change in points awarded for ELO is interesting.

Esvau:

1. What is the formula you are using to calculate a player's probability of winning?
2. What is the new criteria for being able to kick a player?

- Rob

Re: League changes with 8.73 - Prog - 2011-03-26

You are obviously correct that ELO only works for balance if there are rarely resets. Still the problem with a change of the formula without any reset is evident: If the change makes it more difficult to get points at the higher levels and easier to lose points, the current top players stop playing and will never be reached. That is not what a league should be like.

Re: League changes with 8.73 - eSVau - 2011-03-26

GEN_Schwarzkopf Wrote:1. What is the formula you are using to calculate a player's probability of winning?

Code:
dark force: expected_value = 1 / ( 1 + 10 ^ ( ( elo_sum_of_light_force - ( 2 * elo_player_of_dark_force + 3/5 * elo_sum_of_dark_force ) ) / 1000 ) )


light force: expected_value = 1 / ( 1 + 10 ^ ( ( elo_sum_of_dark_force - ( 2 * elo_player_of_light_force + 3/5 * elo_sum_of_light_force ) ) / 1000 ) )

Quote:2. What is the new criteria for being able to kick a player?

I can't remember the exact values right now
BT873 changelog Wrote:The kick system now only uses two factors. The Afk time and the penalty received for deaths. The general point system is still the same, you need 50 points to kick a player and one vote is worth 10 points.
When you die, a certain amount is added to these point account. The start value is 4 and will be increased by 1 for each death. This system is designed in a way, that these go down to their start value in 3 minutes (only in case of one death). When you die in this time frame, it takes longer for those values to go down to their start values again. The faster you die, the faster the value rises.
Each minute you are afk adds 5 five points to your account.


Re: League changes with 8.73 - GEN_Schwarzkopf - 2011-03-27

Is the probability (expected value) of winning adjusted if people quit?

For example: If the player of the highest ELO is dropped does the expected probability of winning change?

- Rob

Re: League changes with 8.73 - JK_Livingstone - 2011-03-28

I like the new assist kill system.

I don´t like the new kick system. See this game!

GameID: 11266
Gamename: BTanks League RANKED #11282
http://league.btanks.net/player.php?playerid=4120

All bad stats. Game was lost long time ago, but many people want to blame a player for losing. They chose me because i started as miner. And a few people understand the miner. That he makes enemy have to waste money and play carefully and that miner got lesser money than teammates. Many ppl just see the disadvantages of that character. So I got bad penalty, bad % of stay. And penalty won´t disappear in 15 games... That will happen a lot more often. Like no player will have no penalty in future. I had an ELO of 1572 - so i´m not too bad, but everybody has a bad game once in a while....

And the ELO formular needs to be fixed too. I understand Althend doesn´t like it. There shall be a higher difference between good and bad players. If u have a good ELO ur challanged with worse teammates allready. So u needn´t give them just a few points for winning and substitute a lot points for losing.

Re: League changes with 8.73 - PaPPa_D - 2011-03-28

Quote:And the ELO formular needs to be fixed too. I understand Althend doesn´t like it. There shall be a higher difference between good and bad players. If u have a good ELO ur challanged with worse teammates allready. So u needn´t give them just a few points for winning and substitute a lot points for losing.

I see the point in players with HIGH ELO allrdy gets team-up with lesser ELO players, there for even harder for them to get a better score.

I will side with JK on this.

Re: League changes with 8.73 - Desktop_General - 2011-03-29

If the games are supposed to be autobalanced, aren't the chances of people winning as close to 50% as possible? It seems like players with high ELO should get about as many points for winning a game as they would lose for losing the game.