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+--- Thread: Ban requirements (/showthread.php?tid=3573)
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Ban requirements - dirtyterror - 2012-11-14
Guys you know me pretty well i think
You know that i have my good and bad moments
Sometimes i flame, not rly often but it happends :/ And i get 1 week ban only cause of that. Even tho in same time im helping the dude that im flaming on and noone even notice that fact Team game is important for me and what is the most important: to be fair (except of flaming) for the teammates, and what i mean by that:- do not steal towers kills, player kills on purpose,
- do not sabotage team mates by letting them hit down 95% of enemy player's hp and than just port/come for last hit,
- share as much damage as you can and run only when its 100% sure that you will die if you wont flee,
- help to defend cp of a weaker player if you can with all necessary meanings (tech mech and porting to help for example),
- and ect...
I wanted to propose some kind of weightened average for ban reasons. I mean, why i get banned for flaming only when all other elements of my game are on 5? Its nor rly fair... What i mean is: you cant stop some 1 from feeding, you cant stop some 1 from sabotaging amd stealing ect. But you can simple mute a duhebag (me in that paticular case:) when hes shittalk anoys you. So why tha hell a little flame is a same reason for a ban as a game sabotage?
What do you think about that?
RE: Ban requirements - jojoy - 2012-11-19
this dude sgot a point ... should be some sort of ignore chat feature... cmon guyz for godness sake...everbody swear and flame ...its part of the game and sometimes may be a strategy... soemone feels ofended should use ignore option and cary on wid da game....
RE: Ban requirements - Max - 2012-11-19
A strategy? Are you kidding?
Anyway it seems admin take a look at flaming and the only ban-able behaviour is flaming without reason. I saw lot of request disapproved because some guys flame together (for example you dirty with grizzly), or when someone flame because he is provoked to flame, then he isn't ban for that. And sometimes when flame is "understand-able" because a guy play like a crap admin don't ban.
Or they do?
Anyway i think flamming is a good reason to ban, ok sometimes you get mad because a player ruin a game, but you can just ban request him or let it go (if he's noob you can flame as much as you want, he will not be better because of that). Flame should not be "part of the game". Flame ruin lot of game. Look at a ban request i made against player Leopold 2 weeks ago and see the replay. Playing with a flammer like that just ruin some fun of playing.
As lot of players i play this game to have fun after a day of work and a full game when players flame is so boring and ruin this aim. You can't have fun in those kind of games.
RE: Ban requirements - dirtyterror - 2012-11-20
(2012-11-19, 22:29:12)Max Wrote: A strategy? Are you kidding?
Anyway it seems admin take a look at flaming and the only ban-able behaviour is flaming without reason. I saw lot of request disapproved because some guys flame together (for example you dirty with grizzly), or when someone flame because he is provoked to flame, then he isn't ban for that. And sometimes when flame is "understand-able" because a guy play like a crap admin don't ban.
Or they do?
Anyway i think flamming is a good reason to ban, ok sometimes you get mad because a player ruin a game, but you can just ban request him or let it go (if he's noob you can flame as much as you want, he will not be better because of that). Flame should not be "part of the game". Flame ruin lot of game. Look at a ban request i made against player Leopold 2 weeks ago and see the replay. Playing with a flammer like that just ruin some fun of playing.
As lot of players i play this game to have fun after a day of work and a full game when players flame is so boring and ruin this aim. You can't have fun in those kind of games.
Well i have to disagree with you Max
eSvau ban me every time when he see i flame in any way
The only one who made an effort, and tryed to understand the reason of flame was Tezsick - and true 1-2 times he ignored ban request on me with flam as the only reason i will say more: i never got ban from Tez for flaming. In moste games where i was cursing some 1 i was top player and the flamed by me was playing like crap. For example the last ban on me that is ongoing at the very moment
Example:Me (frost robot pretty fed) + Grisha (hunter outfarmed but with orbital) atack middle cp. We could get it easilly but what happend? Grisha used orbital before some 1 came to steal tower kill... When enemies ported he had NOTHING. Baricade bought by me wasted+i died. I flamed him because of that and i was angry to the end of the game. I got ban for this. In my opinion eSvau should think sometimes before banning only because some 1 was flaming a bit. At least he could try to put himselve in my position.
In my opinion flame and only flame should not be enough for ban. As i said before you can always /squelch anoying flamer. Example: i do this right away when i see GrizzlyB in any game and im much healthier
ps. Joy got a point. Flaming or using hard words to piss off some 1 can be a strategy
you cant focus on game when you are angry.
RE: Ban requirements - Prog - 2012-11-20
You cannot /squelch people from other realms.
Also flaming as a strategy will always be banned, we don't want that in battletanks.
RE: Ban requirements - eSVau - 2012-11-20
Yes, i don't care about reasons for flaming and people already got banned for flaming will recieve a new flame ban faster than other
RE: Ban requirements - dirtyterror - 2012-11-20
(2012-11-20, 00:14:50)Prog Wrote: You cannot /squelch people from other realms.
Also flaming as a strategy will always be banned, we don't want that in battletanks.
Well i believe you can easilly separate flaming on purpose to anoy some 1 from swearing in anger. I flame when im mad and only when im mad. I try to hold my temper but ehh as i said before in other topic i am only weak human being.
Still: flaming when some 1 is angry while hes playing rly good should not be the 100% ban reason. Especially when anger is justified by bad game of a player you are flaming.
(2012-11-20, 00:39:09)eSVau Wrote: Yes, i don't care about reasons for flaming and people already got banned for flaming will recieve a new flame ban faster than other
Good player or at least a dicent one (as i think about my self) has more reasons to get pissed in a game than a weak one.
So if you ban good players only cause they flamed some 1 you kinda destroy league games for 1 weak
Because seriously, less and less players play Battle tanks. We are little comunity of ppl that know each other pretty good. I have days when i play like 3-5 games with the same players... Ban 3 of them and you will wait for a game to fill up 40 min not 30 like now or moreI got to tell you im pretty anoyed when you ban me that way
Not because i cant play i dont give a shit that i cant play a game for a week) Especially that i play at work (my only "free" time) cause at home i rather to spend some quality time with my familly. But its just not fair. And now you write that you dont give a fuck what was the reason of flame... Well what can i say... You dont put to much needed attention to your duties as you should eSvau, cause if i would be on your place, player that flamed and had a point in this would not get ban from me for flaming only
RE: Ban requirements - Prog - 2012-11-20
Who cares about reasons to get angry, doesn't make flaming any better. I rather have a league with only bad, but friendly players than a bunch of flaming bt-pros.
RE: Ban requirements - DJantoine - 2012-11-20
Typical Example : http://league.btanks.net/game.php?gameid=34360
2 tinkers who don't want to switch tank while having leavergold .
RE: Ban requirements - Max - 2012-11-20
(2012-11-20, 09:50:22)DJantoine Wrote: Typical Example : http://league.btanks.net/game.php?gameid=34360
2 tinkers who don't want to switch tank while having leavergold .
So it gives you a reason to flame them? Blue is ban-able for flame and eco sabotage, then just ban request him and no need to flame. And i really disagree what you say about tinker. Tinker is as all tanks in this game : a tank. Saying that you would kick a player just because he plays tinker should make you ban-able ! A good tinker can make a win, as a bad heli or antigrav can make a loose. A good player is a good player, even if he plays tinker, and a bad player is still bad even if he plays another tank than tinker.
Have a look at the, that happened yesterday.
Game : http://league.btanks.net/game.php?gameid=34365
And i say it again : flaming is useless and just ruin some games. It sucks more than any other thing. I played some times with really bad players, and if you talk to them like a normal man, you give him tips then he could be better, this will help him. If you fkame him and kick just because "he is noob" he will stay noob and never improve. I know what i say because some times ago i was maybe one of the worst player of this game, and all bt players have been noobs some time, you have to be understandable with them and try to help them instead of flame them.
RE: Ban requirements - DJantoine - 2012-11-20
OK I told them few times to buy tank (ok purple bought scout on 20min then few mins later helicopter which was total stupidity) otherwise we will lose they didn't listen so what do to in that case? Stay fine and pretend to play or just go AFK? . Also I've never claimed that playing tinker equals kick from my point of view just for those who prolonging play like in that replay . Usually Having at least one tinker with leavergold who go mass weps causes unnecessary anger (my example isn't about flaming just that flaming shouldn't be punished in that case i've shown) .
RE: Ban requirements - Max - 2012-11-20
Yes it should be. They play stupid way, blue more than purple. Purple should have get heli first, but 10 min after that he got hunter. He isn't bad, just bad way to use his gold, we all do that. Blue clearly eco sabotage, with 2k hp getting hail instead of at least air shit... But you can flame all the time you want : they won't change their tanks because of that, look , blue didn't listen at all. Flame in this case doesn't change the end of the game and doesn't make blue change his tank. Kick, or loose and ban request or don't play a game with him. I mean clearly he didn't listen anything you said, flame or not, if he is stupid you can't change that
RE: Ban requirements - dirtyterror - 2012-11-20
(2012-11-20, 01:00:03)Prog Wrote: Who cares about reasons to get angry, doesn't make flaming any better. I rather have a league with only bad, but friendly players than a bunch of flaming bt-pros.
Topic is not abuot that. Topic is about flaming as the only ban reason. You cant teach ppl how to behave. Focus on doing a good game not kindergarden.
Im trying to hold my self and i suceed in 99% of games, sometimes i flame some 1 he report me and i get a ban. Olthough it was pretty justified.
Focus on the subject.
I only want you admins to notice that if some 1 throw some hard words for some player and in the mean while he play good and team play, you should not ban him just because he got pissed. Thats all.
If some 1 flame and he suck in the meanhile np. ban him even me. But battletanks is not a savoir vivre lesson, remmeber that. Ppl come here from differend reasons sometimes to load off the tension
let them if they can play.
RE: Ban requirements - Saiyuki - 2012-11-20
can't speak for others but i will always ignore some minor flaming since there might always be some frustrating situations, e.g. being killed by a projectile even though 6 creeps had been around. flaming as the only reason only gets approved when it occures way too often and when the teamplay is directly affected. and since this is quite a lame reason to be banned for let's say in comparison to a real sabotage by using bombs/mines/economy, further bans of the same player might be approved more easily.
as you are already aware of, battle.net provides two commands to hide player messages (/squelch and /ignore). if one side is ignored, the other party might also stop and focus on gameplay, hence no reason to put up a ban request will be needed.
RE: Ban requirements - dirtyterror - 2012-11-20
(2012-11-20, 16:20:17)Saiyuki Wrote: can't speak for others but i will always ignore some minor flaming since there might always be some frustrating situations, e.g. being killed by a projectile even though 6 creeps had been around. flaming as the only reason only gets approved when it occures way too often and when the teamplay is directly affected. and since this is quite a lame reason to be banned for let's say in comparison to a real sabotage by using bombs/mines/economy, further bans of the same player might be approved more easily.
as you are already aware of, battle.net provides two commands to hide player messages (/squelch and /ignore). if one side is ignored, the other party might also stop and focus on gameplay, hence no reason to put up a ban request will be needed.
And thats more liked
Finally some woice of sense in this duscussion. I realize that im doing bad when i let nerves take control over my thoungue. But im not a child and even tho i flame i never sabotage the game and even the player that pissed me off. I will say more! i even send mechs and port to help side players even when they are rood and unpolite... And than i will say few words to much and BANG there is a ban request from player Grisha that sucked like hell and was mad on me cause he know that my flame was justified by hes weak game and another BANG eSvau aproves ban just because i used hard words ^^ no mather that dude was playing selfish and stupid way... Cause rly... atacking middle cp and using the ONLY reasonable weapon that he had to steal/take tower kill? and have nothing to support me when enemies came? There is a replay of this game, you all can see that situation and judge it on your own... I remember this patucilar game pretty good in a bad way.
RE: Ban requirements - Max - 2012-11-20
"Finally some woice of sense in this duscussion. "
This means that a guy who disagree with you is obligatory wrong?
Well as i told i think "flame" should be ban-able when it's too much. Most of games you play and you flame you have a reason to. This doesn't excuse you to flame, but some times flame is understand-able than doesn't deserve a ban, i agree with that. But the problem is : there are a lot of replays and ban request on league and admins can't just give all their time to watch and try to understand the flammer if he got a good reason to flame or not. And if flaming isn't ban-able then more players will flame (like in quali) because they won't be "punished" for that.
I know you and i know that you never flame for free and you flame only when a guy is pissing you off, but still, they must be objective rules. If you say : you can flame a little but not to much it is too subjective when a request is made. This can't happen.
RE: Ban requirements - Grischa187 - 2012-11-20
i think just shut up is the deal :D flame no people and you dont get ban requests pretty easy huh xD
RE: Ban requirements - Prog - 2012-11-20
(2012-11-20, 14:06:29)dirtyterror Wrote:(2012-11-20, 01:00:03)Prog Wrote: Who cares about reasons to get angry, doesn't make flaming any better. I rather have a league with only bad, but friendly players than a bunch of flaming bt-pros.
Topic is not abuot that. Topic is about flaming as the only ban reason. You cant teach ppl how to behave. Focus on doing a good game not kindergarden.
Im trying to hold my self and i suceed in 99% of games, sometimes i flame some 1 he report me and i get a ban. Olthough it was pretty justified.
Focus on the subject.
I only want you admins to notice that if some 1 throw some hard words for some player and in the mean while he play good and team play, you should not ban him just because he got pissed. Thats all.
If some 1 flame and he suck in the meanhile np. ban him even me. But battletanks is not a savoir vivre lesson, remmeber that. Ppl come here from differend reasons sometimes to load off the tension
I'm never gonna let them "load off the tension" by flaming, because it destroys the game experience for the other players. There is absolutely no justification for flaming at all. If you disagree and keep on flaming when you feel that you have the right to, you'll get banned. If you can't be "teached how to behave", then sorry, but I don't want you to play this game.
Just for fun I post you some quotes from the ban police of league of legends, which does not work perfectly either, but gets at least some things right:
Quote:Why is verbal abuse punishable if there is a mute button/language filter?
Players shouldn’t need to rely on features like the mute button or language filter to engage with other players in positive ways. When a player verbally abuses another player and forces him to use the mute button, they have already created a negative experience for that player.
Quote:That player in my game was far worse than me. Why am I banned???
a) I'll keep this one simple: retaliation isn't OK. Reacting to a toxic player by being toxic just incites that player to be even worse--it also ruins the game for up to 8 other players. It is far, far worse to watch two people yelling at each other all game than it is to watch 1 player ranting into blank space. Almost everyone in the game can find someone out there that behaves worse than they do--but so what? Finding someone worse doesn't justify your behavior or justify retaliation. We expect more out of our players. What players often don't realize is... those other players in your game that you thought were worse? Nearly 100% of the time, those players were banned even before you were. If someone is being toxic, just report them and move on. If you retaliate, both of you will be banned. It's really that simple.
RE: Ban requirements - dirtyterror - 2012-11-21
(2012-11-20, 22:34:54)Prog Wrote:(2012-11-20, 14:06:29)dirtyterror Wrote:(2012-11-20, 01:00:03)Prog Wrote: Who cares about reasons to get angry, doesn't make flaming any better. I rather have a league with only bad, but friendly players than a bunch of flaming bt-pros.
Topic is not abuot that. Topic is about flaming as the only ban reason. You cant teach ppl how to behave. Focus on doing a good game not kindergarden.
Im trying to hold my self and i suceed in 99% of games, sometimes i flame some 1 he report me and i get a ban. Olthough it was pretty justified.
Focus on the subject.
I only want you admins to notice that if some 1 throw some hard words for some player and in the mean while he play good and team play, you should not ban him just because he got pissed. Thats all.
If some 1 flame and he suck in the meanhile np. ban him even me. But battletanks is not a savoir vivre lesson, remmeber that. Ppl come here from differend reasons sometimes to load off the tension
I'm never gonna let them "load off the tension" by flaming, because it destroys the game experience for the other players. There is absolutely no justification for flaming at all. If you disagree and keep on flaming when you feel that you have the right to, you'll get banned. If you can't be "teached how to behave", then sorry, but I don't want you to play this game.
Just for fun I post you some quotes from the ban police of league of legends, which does not work perfectly either, but gets at least some things right:
Quote:Why is verbal abuse punishable if there is a mute button/language filter?
Players shouldn’t need to rely on features like the mute button or language filter to engage with other players in positive ways. When a player verbally abuses another player and forces him to use the mute button, they have already created a negative experience for that player.
Quote:That player in my game was far worse than me. Why am I banned???
a) I'll keep this one simple: retaliation isn't OK. Reacting to a toxic player by being toxic just incites that player to be even worse--it also ruins the game for up to 8 other players. It is far, far worse to watch two people yelling at each other all game than it is to watch 1 player ranting into blank space. Almost everyone in the game can find someone out there that behaves worse than they do--but so what? Finding someone worse doesn't justify your behavior or justify retaliation. We expect more out of our players. What players often don't realize is... those other players in your game that you thought were worse? Nearly 100% of the time, those players were banned even before you were. If someone is being toxic, just report them and move on. If you retaliate, both of you will be banned. It's really that simple.
You act like a confromist
"its going to be like i want, cause i want it to be my way". Im not saying flaming should be justified in 100% cases... Im saying it should not be the only ban reaason when player was pushed to flame. You really dont get so simple issue? TezSick does Saiyuki does and you can't?And what does it mean you dont want me to play that game:D Are you creator of Btanks? If my or other player bitching anoys you just use /squelch or /ignore command. And btw leage of lgends is kinda differend format of a game my friend
We have like 300 active players they have arround 40k so they can offord of banning any of them for 1 single "shit" word. And btw there are many other even more popular games where "game masters" dont give a sh*** about flaming between players and they only focus on hunting ppl who use exploits.In real life when newspaper bitch about some politician or goverment or any other case you shut it down for 1 week? And there are few titles in the world that use kinda strong words to express their opinions
You dont like it? Dont read it. And we are talking about a game here dude
if you cant face a kid that play on the other end of the cable dont go into inthernet. One more time:
flame only ban, when good/dicent player face stupidity = no!watch the context of the whole situation and then decide. Flaming/bitching w/o reason = ban
(2012-11-20, 20:34:25)Max Wrote: "Finally some woice of sense in this duscussion. "
This means that a guy who disagree with you is obligatory wrong?
Well as i told i think "flame" should be ban-able when it's too much. Most of games you play and you flame you have a reason to. This doesn't excuse you to flame, but some times flame is understand-able than doesn't deserve a ban, i agree with that. But the problem is : there are a lot of replays and ban request on league and admins can't just give all their time to watch and try to understand the flammer if he got a good reason to flame or not. And if flaming isn't ban-able then more players will flame (like in quali) because they won't be "punished" for that.
I know you and i know that you never flame for free and you flame only when a guy is pissing you off, but still, they must be objective rules. If you say : you can flame a little but not to much it is too subjective when a request is made. This can't happen.
Well at least you got the point. I agree i cant behave like that and like i said in 99% of games i handle to not get mad. But in case when flamed player banrequest you, he sucked and kinda sabotaged a game i get pissed tell him few words of truth and mad kid is going for a ban? Chilarious
In this paticular case i hope Grisha got ban to, i didnt put to much atention to this request. For sucking in this game not flaming back if there was any cause i rly dont give a sh*** what does dude on the other side of the world think about me. Ps. Where's the love i remember you flaming few times so you are in no position to tell me a word about that
RE: Ban requirements - Prog - 2012-11-21
One more time: flame only ban, when good/decent player face stupidity = YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES
Everything else is just morally wrong, because you ruin the game experience of other players on purpose. There is no valid justification for flaming. Ever.
The newspaper analogy is terrible. No newspaper will ever flame anyone. There is a clear distiction between sharp critic and flame, at least in developed countries.
Also I already told you that you cannot mute people from other servers. It just does not work.
I'll ignore those pointless ad hominems.
Edit: You should better learn the difference between "I don't want you to xyz" and an order.