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+--- Thread: Tinker exploder (/showthread.php?tid=3668)
Tinker exploder - dirtyterror - 2013-01-13
Is the last update of tinker deliberate or it's just a bug?
I saw ppl abusing tinker as exploder... and its crazy cause evenwhen they miss atack and die they dont get +1 to die stats... And there is no delay in exploding + they can still carry items o.O Range of explosion is just lolo.O when i tryed to catch 1 on breakrer i got killed from like 800 range ....
Whats the point of locking exploder mode in league games if you allow to use tinker as 1 ....
RE: Tinker exploder - dirtyterror - 2013-01-18
Can any one of mappers take a part in this topic? Do you intend to do something with it?
Because if not i dont see any sense in locking exploder in league mode...
RE: Tinker exploder - Wapiti. - 2013-01-18
(2013-01-18, 07:36:37)dirtyterror Wrote: Can any one of mappers take a part in this topic? Do you intend to do something with it?
Because if not i dont see any sense in locking exploder in league mode...
you want a kick
RE: Tinker exploder - AeroniumX - 2013-01-19
(2013-01-18, 07:36:37)dirtyterror Wrote: Can any one of mappers take a part in this topic? Do you intend to do something with it?
Because if not i dont see any sense in locking exploder in league mode...
I kinda agree. Exploder really breaks the balance, as you can now explode at will. Its really powerful as you can survive the explosion and damage others. The old way exploder was a riskful tactic as you paid with your bounty. Just a selfkill denies the enemy the gold and gives the tinker with explosives all the advantage. Even if he misses selfkill won't do much disadvantage.
Suggestions:
1.
Increasing the timecount will make it easier to attack tinker eith explosives, as just 3 second hes able to attack even when being pursued.
Atm tinker with explosives is really OP
2.
Make the user not die by his own explosion for 1 or 2 sec if it deals more damage than its hp, delay selfkill with 1 or 2 sec so its a potencial gamble to use explosives. However this would still be OP against weapons with high CD.
3.
Add 1 sec count if the ability teleport was used.
These are just suggestions to balance the currently unbalaned element of tinker + explosives.
RE: Tinker exploder - LoveComesAgain - 2013-01-19
what for exploder is available in league mode? even if u play and have postive stats someone can kick you, and almost in all games u will find some idiot that will kick u for no reason and i dont understand u not get +1 to deaths but still can someone kick u and need only 1 max 2 votes !! WTF?
RE: Tinker exploder - dirtyterror - 2013-01-19
(2013-01-19, 15:28:59)LoveComesAgain Wrote: what for exploder is available in league mode? even if u play and have postive stats someone can kick you, and almost in all games u will find some idiot that will kick u for no reason and i dont understand u not get +1 to deaths but still can someone kick u and need only 1 max 2 votes !! WTF?
Its more about the fact that if oyu cunter tinker-exploder with breaker you wont get any money of this... Why? Cause he can carry hulls and handle your atack until he kills itselve... So if you take lane vs exploder you cant rly feed on him so there is no way to get a good fight on lane cp and no fun of it...
RE: Tinker exploder - UnifiedDoom - 2013-01-20
(2013-01-19, 21:13:38)dirtyterror Wrote: Its more about the fact that if oyu cunter tinker-exploder with breaker you wont get any money of this... Why? Cause he can carry hulls and handle your atack until he kills itselve... So if you take lane vs exploder you cant rly feed on him so there is no way to get a good fight on lane cp and no fun of it...
Perhaps teleport breakers should disable explosives also. Right now I feel exploders don't really "lose" anything for a bad tp since they just end up killing themselves. Hitting a breaker should really give the other team a free kill in my opinion, right now it's just too easy to play exploder without giving the other team any money.
RE: Tinker exploder - Exodus - 2013-01-20
Hm, one possible suggestion from me would be, that when a unit suicides, everyone that dealt damage to that unit still gets an assist. The one that placed the Teleport Breaker would always get an assist (if the Breaker was triggered).
How about that?
RE: Tinker exploder - dirtyterror - 2013-01-20
(2013-01-20, 02:58:06)Exodus Wrote: Hm, one possible suggestion from me would be, that when a unit suicides, everyone that dealt damage to that unit still gets an assist. The one that placed the Teleport Breaker would always get an assist (if the Breaker was triggered).
How about that?
I think its still not enough... Still i will get like 70 gold (2 creeps) while he can gain like 300 for killing me. We are talking about tactic that allows you to 1 hit almoust every tank from beginning to the end of the game... And he still can creep by buying some weapons and hull and thats just crazy.
I would be more happy about lowering range of explosions. In one of games dude where porting several times on breaker and i died from like range 600-800.
RE: Tinker exploder - AeroniumX - 2013-01-20
(2013-01-20, 02:58:06)Exodus Wrote: Hm, one possible suggestion from me would be, that when a unit suicides, everyone that dealt damage to that unit still gets an assist. The one that placed the Teleport Breaker would always get an assist (if the Breaker was triggered).Assists sounds like a good solution. Would be even better if owner of breaker kills the tinker and disable explosive counter. At least disabling the counter would be a good feature imo.
How about that?
If its stunned, maybe pause the counter?
Also its very hard to approach the tinker with explosives. Atm a tinker with explosives ruin the entire gameplay totally.
RE: Tinker exploder - Prog - 2013-01-20
The thing is: There should be a possiblity to play exploder effectivle even versus decent/good players. If we'd let breakers kill the tinker and diasble the explosives there would be absolutely no way to accomplish that.
RE: Tinker exploder - stibi- - 2013-01-20
can i get a replay which includes a well played exploder?
RE: Tinker exploder - Prog - 2013-01-20
(2013-01-20, 18:01:07)stibi- Wrote: can i get a replay which includes a well played exploder?
Very unlikely that you will ever find one
RE: Tinker exploder - stibi- - 2013-01-20
(2013-01-20, 22:15:25)Prog Wrote:(2013-01-20, 18:01:07)stibi- Wrote: can i get a replay which includes a well played exploder?
Very unlikely that you will ever find one
had to ask as i do not understand all the qq in here ^__^
(2013-01-20, 02:58:06)Exodus Wrote: Hm, one possible suggestion from me would be, that when a unit suicides, everyone that dealt damage to that unit still gets an assist. The one that placed the Teleport Breaker would always get an assist (if the Breaker was triggered).
How about that?
what about a global change?
place breaker/use net in order to get an assist (+gold)?
RE: Tinker exploder - AeroniumX - 2013-01-21
Well currently tinker with explosives ruins a game on qualify. I tried it once and enemy team wasn't happy about it.
Something has to be done with this. Its hard when counter is at 3 seconds. Assist bonus isn't enough. Like in the old way of playing this tactic, it was a kill swap tactic which made it a risky tactic. Now its almost no risk at all.
Suggestion:
What if it kill someone, something would automatically get the kill of tinker?If it fails to kill only selfkill would apply.
Or do you have a better solution?
Otherwise so far this is not a good feature for btanks like it stands now. Maybe disable it for the tinkers to buy explosives? If domeone sells a tank and if it has explosives, those items is then disabled. Maybe this would be the most reasonable solution.
RE: Tinker exploder - Max - 2013-01-21
Well i really don't see the problem of explosives. The fact that those guys are almost "unkillable" because of active explosives isn't a surprise. And if you want to counter a guy like that : put breakers, don't play all grouped or get air tank maybe? Air tanks have a good move which make you able to go out of explosion range or just buy speed with ground tank. And anticipate a little the teleportation of the tinker. Or just buy some skills (or ask it as a present for your birthday
).When exploders were allowed most of them fed. What changed about that? Just the fact that explosives become active.
And don't forget that an exploder need explosives to continue the game and lose a lot of gold buy not killing creeps. In the end when he change to a tank his value is almost the same as other players, and most of the time it's lower.
I like the assist suggestion. But then if an explosion suicide give an assist you should add assists to mine or bombs (sky fort) suicides to be fair.
RE: Tinker exploder - 091846 - 2013-01-21
how to you deal with tinker with energy t............. at the starting gold of 3k
where they build a tower to block your long range weapon, if you can try to short range but u will be killed ?
RE: Tinker exploder - Max - 2013-01-21
Hum that's not the point of that topic, but the only way is to play defense and to play with team. If you stay grouped and focus creeps till you can afford some hull tinker is then no problem to counter. Well you still can play versus a very good tinker, which could be really hard to counter, as well as a good player with another tank. If tinker lr was overpowered all players would play it. This is not the case, then it is not overpowered and lot of players feed by playing this way...
RE: Tinker exploder - Exodus - 2013-01-22
Alright, after some discussions, we came up with an idea. This would be additional to the assist suggestion.
What's important for me, is that the Explosives and Exploder not only simply get nerfed, much like Prog said it. I believe, that one way this could be done would be, that Explosives (once active and in countdown) can be defused by the (Mine) Defuser. This would go along with some number changes, like a longer countdown for the Explosives (like 4s) and a higher range for the Defuser.
With this you'd have a pretty good counter against Explosives and the Defuser would also become more useful. Especially at the beginning, when the Tinker still has a low Teleport range you can actually use the Defuser effectively.
Also, the defuse would work like with the mines. The Explosives would blow up and the one that used the Defuser would get the credit for the kill.
I am aware, that this would only work in early game, but for later stages in the game, there is the Burst Armor. The upgraded version of it is able to absorb Explosives of any size completely.
I think this will still not be enough for some of you, but I believe that this would be a reasonable change to improve the gameplay.
RE: Tinker exploder - AeroniumX - 2013-01-22
Sounds like a good idea to implement those changes.what is the range of defuse? 1000? 1200? Might be a bit hard to counter 1600 teleport range and higher since many uses xp boost as well quite early. Can the defuser be abused to defused himself to explode instantly?
This must be released public to see how these changes would impact the explosives balance. This would make burst armor quite good counteragainst explosives.