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+--- Thread: Weapons not used (often) (/showthread.php?tid=3752)
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Weapons not used (often) - gozo1985 - 2013-03-20
AA Gun
Acid Cannon
Artillery
Bombs
Death Magic
Energy Spears
Frost Magic
Glaive Cannon
Machine Gun
Plasma Fragments
Rock Catapult
Soulstone
All these weapons are used not often. Some of these weapons have a good reason to exist but the way they work is maybe the reason why they used rarely.
I guess there are different reasons why:
- most players dont like to switch their weapons (soulstone, plasma fragments)
- many people dont like the range of the weapon (glaive in early game, bombs)
- many weapons are too specific (creep only weapons)
I would like to see a rework of some weapons to make them more useful i start here with what i think would make them more interesting:
AA Gun (more range, more attackspeed, less damage)
Acid Cannon (less cost, less damage)
Bombs (less range, more damage)
Glaive cannon (spreadshot, less projectile damage)
Plasma Fragments (spreadshot, less projectile damage)
Soulstone (less range, more damage)
what do you think?
RE: Weapons not used (often) - Perfektionist - 2013-03-21
(2013-03-20, 20:16:28)gozo1985 Wrote: Bombs (less range, more damage)
?? did you mean bombarding rockeds?
RE: Weapons not used (often) - Max - 2013-03-21
Well soem weapons need to be changed or removed but not all you mentionned in your list.
Death magic is never used anymore (till it hits only creeps - long time ago), acid canon just used 1/500 games. But some others like bombs or aa gun are used some times, well not a lot, but they are well balanced and can fit some strategies. I don't think they need a change. Galive canon, machin gun are used less than other weapons but still used by some players. Rock catapult isn't used a lot too but still don't need a change imo, I played it some times recently and it helped a lot to finish a hard game (camping + converter in base towers).
I don't think there is a lot of changes need on weapons, or just for 2-3 that are nearly never used or to make new ones (like 25k+ lr or 15-20k attack buildings only weapon).
RE: Weapons not used (often) - gozo1985 - 2013-03-21
(2013-03-21, 13:18:02)Perfektionist Wrote:(2013-03-20, 20:16:28)gozo1985 Wrote: Bombs (less range, more damage)
?? did you mean bombarding rockeds?
no i mean the weapon in the middle for 6k for air only hittng only ground player tanks
RE: Weapons not used (often) - Perfektionist - 2013-03-21
(2013-03-21, 17:12:05)gozo1985 Wrote:(2013-03-21, 13:18:02)Perfektionist Wrote:(2013-03-20, 20:16:28)gozo1985 Wrote: Bombs (less range, more damage)
?? did you mean bombarding rockeds?
no i mean the weapon in the middle for 6k for air only hittng only ground player tanks
yep they are not used very often. Because you can buy way better weapons for that gold. Lighting magic (6666 gold) or light fantastic (6000)(dont know the name
)imo this two weapons are alrounder. You can play them with every tank and they got the highest attackspeed, range and dmg for that price.
RE: Weapons not used (often) - Max - 2013-03-21
Y but depending of the game bombs can be better. Today I played a game vs 5 ground players (earth, heavys, gobo, thunder). In those kind of games those wepaons are good. And I see 1/3 games someone getting at least one of these
RE: Weapons not used (often) - Prog - 2013-03-21
Some of those weapons are just very situational, others are totally useless (glaive and machine gun).
RE: Weapons not used (often) - eSVau - 2013-03-21
(2013-03-21, 22:45:29)Prog Wrote: Some of those weapons are just very situational, others are totally useless (glaive and machine gun).
But with glaive you can fake shredders metal stars
RE: Weapons not used (often) - Max - 2013-03-22
I agree with eSVau that those weapons fit well early shredder (glaive and machine gun). Not totally useless. Not more than death magic or maybe bonefire (almost not used too).
RE: Weapons not used (often) - stibi- - 2013-03-22
what if we change death magic back to the way it was?
should be way easier to counter it as we have got a new tank and new items
RE: Weapons not used (often) - Max - 2013-03-22
That's true. But would be overused as it was before...
And what about laser? Noone talk about that but it's used only by 1 player (Kickballchange) even if all player tell him that a deflective armor lower it's dps by 65%. Ok with new version it will be 50%... But paying 7k to make 400 dps when an opponent spend only 3k is still not worse it imo. Making laser 160*0.2 sec would be a better idea since deflective armor is still in the game.
Btw after playing a lot of games with those new items (deflective - burst - converter - negator) I don't like it very well. Ok it's expensive but it's still too powerful. For 8k you lower damages by 20% + 120 hp/sec regen + heal when kill creeps. Ultimate pack cost 10k and is less usefull than that (in fights).
RE: Weapons not used (often) - stibi- - 2013-03-22
frankly i doubt it would be overused
about the laser ... yea ... rest is peace :/
RE: Weapons not used (often) - gozo1985 - 2013-03-22
(2013-03-21, 22:51:15)eSVau Wrote: But with glaive you can fake shredders metal stars
like i said... would be cool to just redo the weapon a bit with projectiles.
Makes it maybe a bit more effective with creeping and it looks more like a metal star fake then its now.
Death magic... noooooooooooooo not again players only. what about to just make this weapon hitting everything (no extra damage on tanks or creeps)???
As its a 1300 LR weapon for 7777k. I guess people will start using it again.
RE: Weapons not used (often) - Prog - 2013-03-22
(2013-03-22, 11:16:39)Max Wrote: I agree with eSVau that those weapons fit well early shredder (glaive and machine gun). Not totally useless. Not more than death magic or maybe bonefire (almost not used too).
Bonfire is useless too in my opinion.
Death magic on the other hand is sometimes a good (or at least ok) choice for base sieges. People always forget that it does full damage versus buildings.
RE: Weapons not used (often) - Perfektionist - 2013-03-22
(2013-03-22, 13:02:48)gozo1985 Wrote: Death magic... noooooooooooooo not again players only. what about to just make this weapon hitting everything (no extra damage on tanks or creeps)???
As its a 1300 LR weapon for 7777k. I guess people will start using it again.
no more 1300 LR weapons pls... they sucks and are boring
RE: Weapons not used (often) - EarthR - 2013-03-22
(2013-03-22, 13:16:09)Prog Wrote: Bonfire is useless too in my opinion.only if you have huge advantage over the opponent(as a team) and you know you have won and want to troll you can buy this item otherwise its a waste. for 6k you get siege pack which is way more useful if destroying the enemy base is so hard. Also i never saw anyone use it like that
Death magic on the other hand is sometimes a good (or at least ok) choice for base sieges. People always forget that it does full damage versus buildings.
RE: Weapons not used (often) - gozo1985 - 2013-03-22
Back to the main part of the topic what the message of my post was is to change weapons the way they work to maybe get more flexibility or reason to choose a weapon.
As there are for example not many projectile weapons at the startup - Glaive can easily redone by adding projectiles. Maybe its a better creeping weapon then and it fits as fake weapon to the metal stars for the shredd. Same as Plasma Fragments for the Architects Splash-Mana-Tank-Cannon
RE: Weapons not used (often) - Prog - 2013-03-22
Faking just for the sake of faking it makes no sense. The spells you want to fake are those that can be dodged by teleporter...and who wants to dodge, say, Architects Splash-Mana-Tank-Cannon (if it is even possible)?
I really don't even know why Plasma Fragments are never used, they don't seem so bad on paper. Nevertheless I never use them either (even though I do use artillery, so maybe it is a range thing?).
For the very cheap and (in my opinion) bad weapons I suggested a long time ago that they should get expensive upgrades, relative to their base cost, to give them better mid-lategame. I'm not too sure that would solve anything though.
RE: Weapons not used (often) - stibi- - 2013-03-22
what about 2 upgrades for some shitty start weapons?
RE: Weapons not used (often) - Prog - 2013-03-22
2 Upgrades brings the risk that those weapons scale too well with the game, but with lower ranged weapons it would be ok i think (because they suffer so much in the early-mid).