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+--- Thread: Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force (/showthread.php?tid=854)
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Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force - scron2 - 2009-12-24
It's great to see that there are sooo many weapons available and to some
extent they are redundant but nevertheless unique. Does anyone here think
that some weapons should be made that are only available at each side?
Since new weapons are going to be introduced into the game, I thought this
might be an interesting idea. Anyone else?
Re: Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force - Saiyuki - 2009-12-24
nope, there's just no way to balance team unique weapons for the gameplay.
Re: Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force - scron2 - 2009-12-25
Where is your proof of an example?
The first DOTA used this concept -- and you could still buy from the enemy's shop.
Re: Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force - psycho_dmr - 2009-12-25
maybe it would be possible to sell unique weapons in the new stores (top & btm lane) ... why not?
Re: Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force - Althend - 2009-12-25
It seems annoying to balance.
What would have these specific weapons? People would join dark/light force in order to get access to them?
I d rather move some usual weapon from mid shop to top and bottom and put more strategic weapon/item at mid ^_^ (like big weapon? Orbital control? Heavy mine? Mortar item? )
Re: Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force - GooglyBoogly - 2009-12-25
Quote:What would have these specific weapons? People would join dark/light force in order to get access to them?
+1
Re: Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force - scron2 - 2009-12-25
It seems odd that you would consider this "annoying to balance"
1) What if new items are introduced anyway --> will this negate previous additions?
2) Hardly a balance issue in comparison to HB/non-HB.
3) Selling unique items leads to change. If an item is broken then it is broken -- the excuse that everyone can buy it is BULLSHIT and everyone should know this.
Re: Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force - eSVau - 2009-12-25
One thing i like about battle tank is especially that both side have all possibilities all along, because the are equal (besides from the direction).
Re: Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force - qweqqweq - 2009-12-25
it seems there's yet another fiery weapon debate started again! oooh! how exciting!
unfortunately this will probably all be ignored by the programmers who instead it seems are obsessing about making the entire world play one game every three hours with teamspeak and only 3k with tiny bits of gold.
is btanks stuck in clan bug jail and cannot pass go untill it rolls three times in order to get doubles or else pay 50.00 bucks or use a jet out of jail free card?
Re: Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force - Saiyuki - 2009-12-25
qweqqweq Wrote:unfortunately this will probably all be ignored by the programmers who instead it seems are obsessing about making the entire world play one game every three hours with teamspeak and only 3k with tiny bits of gold.what is it, that you want to tell us with that?
is btanks stuck in clan bug jail and cannot pass go untill it rolls three times in order to get doubles or else pay 50.00 bucks or use a jet out of jail free card? :)
it's like Althend and esvau said. moreover, i can imagine mass flaming with the new league of lost games because the "team unique weapon were too imba" and such. as long as the topic creator don't make some real suggestions ( e.g. one balanced unique weapon per team ) we can only make assumptions and deal with the facts.
Re: Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force - horselance - 2009-12-26
scron2 Wrote:Where is your proof of an example?
The first DOTA used this concept -- and you could still buy from the enemy's shop.
I dont play dota much but there are no team unique weapons in dota afaik...
You want a proof? I made a team unique mode for BT. Go play it... "Battle Tanks Reflection" search in mapgnome.
In BT if there will be more wepons, they will be available to all to keep balance...
Re: Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force - qweqqweq - 2009-12-26
making team unique weapons would be like making martial arts sumo wrestler fight a heavy weight boxers every day for the rest of their lives. although it would be funny and interesting at first, eventually everyone would just get sick of it because it's much more interesting in the long run to watch two experts of the same styles fight each other. Or you could think of it like being force to use an axe against a katana all the time. Without that fundamentally equal playing field how would you know who's really better or if it was a fundamental imbalance that let one side win over the other? well, you'd have to guess by using statistics, wouldn't you? Now, with the equal playing field you can quickly and easily guage the better player or player groups at any given time with a single match that decides it all. It's for all the marbles with equal playing fields, you take away that equality among the sides and you're making it less of a win. Like say, for instance, if you had two different sides with two different sets of in game tanks and equipment options then a win would only ever prove that you're better at that side vs the other side. Then it would require an rematch of the exact same teams on opposite sides to prove the absoluteness of the superiority or one team over another.
Thus, in conclusion, it would require 2 games, a second after the first and then switching forces, to see a clear winner, and an eternal draw could be outcome if one side can never overtake the other at least 2 times in a row with both teams. and it would be impossible to know for sure if one side really had an advantage or not in some situations so that would distract away from the actual fighting.
and btw: horselance's version is very fun and excellent in my opinion. i don't know if it would still work after all the recent editor changing patches though. horse, which side do u think had an advantage in your own map ultimately? or did you think it was equal chances for either?
Re: Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force - horselance - 2009-12-26
Red's side had better tanks imo. Flesh Golem especially.
Re: Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force - qweqqweq - 2009-12-26
i always used to get the hovercraft.
Re: Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force - IlPalazzo - 2009-12-27
Althend Wrote:What would have these specific weapons? People would join dark/light force in order to get access to them?
+1
Making team specific weapons/items/tanks would limits the amount of strategies and builds either team can use, and may force players to pick a side merely for their build/strategy.
Re: Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force - scron2 - 2009-12-28
Reign of Chaos Dota, the original, not icefrog's or guinsoos which is commonly tft.. that would be eul's dota is the one with unique items... the 2 bullshit items there would be fary fire buff 30% chance or scourge had 30% chance to curse. The imbalance was that fary fire gave true sight.
BUT in battle tanks this doesn't need to be the case.
AS dota has gone "downhill" in terms of sentinel vs scourge to evolve into firstly -AR allrandom, -AP by 5.74's and finally RD by the late 6's. And finally the notorious "EM" mode which is equated to HB here.
Tanks has already degraded to "AP" in the sense that no unique matchups for dark and light force exist. The game is free-for all... the only possible restrictions being -tmono. (great mode).
So long as they are REASONABLY balanced, which can be assumed by the creators... what is the problem? It isnt' that I'm trying to create one, it's that there should be some.... added complexity? variation? whatever?
If you dont like it then close this topic already.
Re: Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force - T4M.Avatar - 2009-12-28
I would like unique weapons, but i fear the imbalance trough them.
What about weapons for each team with the same stats (damage, cd, range) but different visual look?
For example:
The weapon of the light force shoots out... mh birds?
And the weapons for the dark force shoots with an other animation.
But both have the same damage, cd and range, just the animation is an other one.
This wouldn't imbalance any weapons, it's just for an other overall look.
Ahhhw my english sucks QQ
Re: Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force - horselance - 2009-12-28
-tmono was my suggestion as a "tank race" mode. 1 tank per game and winner is mostly decided by who gets the better (best) tank (because better tank will keep its advantage for whole game). It was altered as 1 tank per team.
But it is a fun mode anyway.
If there are restricted weapons in normal game, there will be restricted strategies by means of which force a player is in. Normally you can get all strategies from the very beggining as your opponent. You can mirror your enemy step by step. But even you have same strategy, winner will be decided by skill of player and team.
But in restrictions, winner will be decided by strategies, (which you may not even have the chance for that strategy because you are in different team.)
Because of this, i do not support such an idea.
But can be another fun mode. -es (Extra Shop) (a new shop is put for both teams which sells different weapons, and maybe some "strange stuff" sold for both sides also)
But if there will be new weapons, they can be put in normal mode for all anyways..
Re: Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force - scron2 - 2009-12-31
It makes no sense to create an "extra shop" mode but it does bring up a pretty significant point.
The middle shop can be gaurded so that players from the team being pushed back can't get to the shop to buy any good weapons. THIS is an example of current imbalance in this game right now. If stronger newer weapons were available in the bases (and be unique) with their own ranges&damage YET at the same time available to be bought by anyone nearby then I think this would help balance the game more and there really is no reason not....
BECAUSE if you are support of the mid shop being "blockable" then putting unique weapons on each side that can be bought by anyone changes no aspect of this argument. It is entirely the same thing and there is no reason against putting new, unique weapons into the game on each side.
There also needs to be stronger weapons than lazer available in one's base, but that's another topic in itself...
Re: Make unique weapns for Dark and Light Force - IlPalazzo - 2009-12-31
scron2 Wrote:BECAUSE if you are support of the mid shop being "blockable" then putting unique weapons on each side that can be bought by anyone changes no aspect of this argument. It is entirely the same thing and there is no reason against putting new, unique weapons into the game on each side.
No, it's not the same. In order to block the mid shop you need map control. It's something you have to work for in order to take and maintain, especially if you're facing a competent team who knows how to play. Having access to team specific weapons is decided before the game starts. The only effort required is to make a couple clicks to jump to the other team.