New Trader Skill: Trading Rage (?)

[Bob666]

The problem with the current skill, which gives wood back per chance, is, that it is nearly useless in the beginning because of the low chance, and useless in the end because you already have enough wood.

So here's a new idea:

Trading Rage

You can give the materials your trade ship is made off to a trade post, so it can use it to produce goods faster. Removes Hit Points from the Trade Ship to make a trade post ready 10 seconds earlier. Active
Removed Hit Points:
Level 1: 1250
Level 2: 950
Level 3: 700
Level 4: 500
Level 5: 350

The idea of removing HP is, that in the beginning this is okay, because you already have enough hp, but later it gets difficult so less HP removed would be better.. this makes the ability better as a starting ability, and thats the time the trader needs some help.... so this helps him to trade faster

[Batto]

I think i dont understand, because:
Trader:
Cost: 2500
Speed: 250
HP: 1500
Armor: 3

So if the skill is lv 1 , then he would die instantly when he tries it out?

But talking about the trader: i keep getting the feeling that playing trader isnt worth it like it used to be. Why not? Well, in the early days, traders would get 100% of what they earned. Yes, that was imba because many traders had a friend int their team who would get all that gold and overpower the enemy. But these days, half of your hard work (really hard sometimes) goes to your teammates. Then their are 2 possibilities: 1) you have good teammates who make good use of the extra gold and own the other team before you get enough to be of any real help by buying a tank or so OR 2) your teammates are so bad that they waste all the extra money and still get beaten to shit. At that point, the enemy will take over the tactical places wich you need as a trader and you wont be able to trade anymore, but because you had to give 50% of you earnings away, you also do not have enough money to buy a decent weapon and tank to counter your enemies.
Yes i do know that trading is a supporting tactic and it is not meant to do for a while and then change into a tank, but why shouldnt it? I mean, if tanks get enough money in half an hour (just saying something) to get infernal + flamethrower (again, just an example), then you as a trader should also be able to get that amount of money in the same amount of time imho.

Well, although i wrote this whole text, i hope you understand what i mean from it...

Dont know if this is the right topic, it may be moved if not!

[Bob666]

you probably have enough money then... its just that you have to sell your old items, and that makes you lose 50% of your money... anyways, trading is a team tactic, yes!

Edited first post, i thought trader had 2500hp

[TKF]

but, you're thinking of directly implementing this into the trade skill? If so, it will be a bit complicated then....


But what if I suggests some other ideas...


Trade Efficiency (A)

Reduced the time for the good traded at posts being ready again after you traded there.

Level 1: Trade post has 2 mp initial after trade (instead starting on 0 as usual)
Level 2: Trade post has 3 mp initial after trade
Level 3: Trade post has 4 mp initial after trade
Level 4: Trade post has 5 mp initial after trade
Level 5: Trade post has 6 mp initial after trade

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Trade Profit (A)

You gain instantly personal profit in gold when you collect goods at trade posts.

Level 1: 2% of its value (2.3 gold from metal (115))
Level 2: 2.5% of its value
Level 3: 3% of its value
Level 4: 3.5% of its value
Level 5: 4% of its value

_____

Trade Materials/Rage (A)

Just as you said sort of, but the remaining mp at a trade post for example 36 of 40, you will only lose 40% of hp cost. If your hp is to low compared to it's cost, nothing happens, and you must wait a little longer. So this skill won't kill you. Also activated when you trade normally, so be careful. I'm not against this, but I'm not sure how this skill would work. (does it always apply when you use the normal trade skill?)

_____

Complex Skill

Trade Contracting/Monopoly (A)

Visiting the same trade posts done only by you, will increase the chance for monopoly. Also when you have accumulated enough trades, the mp will drop to 10 mp, instead of 0 when you trades. (A variable system that remembers for each trade post) If enemy trader trades where you got this "monopoly", it breaks for you and it's again resetted, and you must again trade X number of times there to again gain this bonus. This might lead to highly tactical trade war, where ruining trade for other is a part of the game. Also you must visit the same trade post within 5 min since you last traded there (when "monopoly" is actual for that post), or "monopoly" also breaks.

Also the text "Contract" appears above trade post when you traded there enough

Timeout: 5 min

For example at level 2, if you have traded on same Trade port 5 times before, the skill takes effect when you trade there the sixth time, and the mp of trade post will drop to 10 mp, instead of 0.

Level 1: 7 Trades on trade posts without timeout or interruption from enemy trader
Level 2: 6 Trades on trade posts without timeout or interruption from enemy trader
Level 3: 5 Trades on trade posts without timeout or interruption from enemy trader
Level 4: 4 Trades on trade posts without timeout or interruption from enemy trader
Level 5: 3 Trades on trade posts without timeout or interruption from enemy trader


....





This is very hot topic for me, I'll see what you write tomorrow (I'm trade freak :mrgreen: )

[Bob666]

Trade Efficiency is interesting, but it makes the trader even stronger at the end does not help it at start

Trade profit is boring imho

Trade rage is meant to be clickable... so if you stand next to a control point, you click on that skill, and your hp will convert to mana points... the ratio of how many mana points per HP are created is increases per level, the maximum gained mana stays the same

and Monopoly is VERY interesting, i think i will try that one... but well, the timeout should be a bit faster imho, because if you have no enemy trader or the trade posts are on your side of the map, you will easily have a monopoly there... perhaps also reset it on death? im not quite sure how to balance it

[TKF]

You have a point, helping the trader at start is difficult to balance. trade efficiency only makes it far better to trade in end games.


Talking about trade rage, if you want to add a extra visible ability, where did you intend to put the ekstra button? (you only have 5 buttons, you can't have 6, since the sell ability!) Only solution here is to hide outrun, but I think that would be stupid. Or else you somehow put a secret button when you click on the trade post, a secondary dummy structure will instantly be selected and you could choose ability on this one?


About Contracting/Monopoly idea, the timeout could be reduced if there is no enemy trader present, but not so low, that you cannot finish a trade circle, perhaps 3 min. Some time at least. If enemy attempt blockades trade posts, you might slip though with your skills, but you're in danger in getting killed, which is worse (if death should reset the monopoly).

But if you die, you lose precious time, and might as well having difficulties with retaining monopoly with time pressure and enemy presence (If death wouldn't reset monopoly).



______


But the way trading was in 8.04, it was a good start for trader (cuz mid posts gave 2 wood), but at late game, the trade sort of lowered, cuz the outer posts had relative low cost goods (even those on best side for trade), compared with those goods in current versions. But as barely I remember, I think trade posts were close too. I'm not sure about development curve for trader, but I think it's sharper now (bad at start, quite imba in long games)

The only way to really fix the traders problem at getting started, is to
rework the trade rewards a little
OR
make a special skill that balanced it (im not sure the ones I suggested really do)
OR
actually increase the traders speed (cuz you made him tinker slow at start, which also contributes to slow start). You have the speed item which gives 150 speed boost, which doesn't change the curve so much when it has the item. 250 + 150 = 400. also 270 + 150 = 420. There is only 20 in difference. Low speed does cripple much at the start. High speed doesn't have that significant difference.

___

Back to monopoly idea

I also thinks that monopoly idea works bothways.
But I assume a good skill solution is that you would try now to make a better start for the trader?

[Exodus]

Hm, the Monopoly-Skill is really interesting ...

I think the time cap, the enemy trader interrupt and canceling when you die should be enough (since it only gives you a 10 seconds time bonus), maybe decrease the time cap, dunno. This would be something you can only see in an actual game.

It's true that I reworked the trade rewards some versions ago, but overall the rewards decreased in comparison to the way it was before (even if its just a little). Its also intended to make the early game more difficult for the trader, since you have a hard time at the start trying to kill a trader. Its just to give the other players more time to do something against the trader before the enemy team gets too much gold, if they dont use this chance ... well, its their own fault.

[TKF]

I think that should be variable. If there is a enemy trader, timecap will be 5 min, otherwise if you trade alone it will be 3 min instead (cuz of the advantage of trading on trade posts alone).

[TKF]

The new trade skill is added, but I have a couple of questions.


Question 1: Does the number of trades in order to make a monopoly look like this?

Lv1: 6
Lv2: 5
Lv3: 4
Lv4: 3
Lv5: 2

Question 2: For example at lv3, do you have to trade 4 times, and then next time (the 5th trade) monopoly is created? Or will it created at 4th time?

[Bob666]

i dont even know it either try it out

[Vomitus]

As for now it is only 2 minutes until monopoly disappears. It's a bit too little. When I take a ride back to TradeMaster from a trade circle(pardon, with monopoly it became 'trade dinode') I sometimes lose monopoly on shops. And this is the case when no enemies are near. That doesn't fit in logic: when this is indeed your territory, this IS your monopoly. Why should I lose it?
So, I think 3 minutes will be enough to make a good trade.

And second, about trade times need to gain monopoly.
If lvl3 skill requires 4 times(as tooltip says), you actually get monopoly only on 5th trade.
I think this aslo should be changed to correspond given information.