8.58 Upgrades

[Nepharius]

If you are the defender you can't win because you have to make all upgrades yourself. But if you attack you can buy weapons and the force do the rest.
Please make it like in the older versions.

[HK416]

i like this new system, its actually worth trying to die capturing a cp. Besides, if ur team only have 1cp, u will get upgrades, but the other team more. Next round it can b the other way around.

Anyhow, the thing i dindt like about .58 is, the new 1k wep. Its not nearly powerfull enuff to do any usefuoll dmg. its 100dps, in a 666 range. If someone just have basic magic, they just simply run off, and "win" cuz they have 333 more range to go on. The thing that could wrok, i think, is to make it into a mini laser thing. maybe more range, and like a 5dmg hit, and im not good at math, but 8-90 dps then. A better wep, to do both creep and tanks. And ofc a dmg upgrade, not range.

[ChronicStoned]

lol. you could say the same for poison magic and psycho magic. they do nearly the same dps but pmagic has 444 more range...

the new upgrade system is good the way it is!
control points are not only healers anymore..

[Exodus]

Maybe you want to know how the new system is working exactly.
Every 5 minutes your Force gets 1500 gold, plus 500 gold for each CP. This is only used for upgrading. The Force tries to balance both upgrade levels and saves everything it couldn't spend for the next 5-minute-mark. In case there are no more upgrades to research, the gold is added to the normal gold pool, which gets distributed between the players.

So at the beginning your Force gets 1500 + (3*500), which equals 3000 gold and with that your Force can research 2 upgrades. With no CP left your Force still gets 1500 gold, which is enough for one upgrade and with 6 CPs your Force gets enough gold for 3 upgrades.

[ChronicStoned]

well THAT was interesting and helpfull =)
because i wondered why the force did only 2 upgrades, while i captured a cp at 4:51
i thought of a kind of delay but that 1500+X*500 gold thing makes sense.

[Dr.McNinja]

HK416 have you used bonfire much? I can get 450dps by 3min mark with 4 upgraded bonfire.

[DerSatan]

I can get 450dps by 3min mark with 4 upgraded bonfire.

whoot? 10k starting gold, or just with tinker without an enemy?

[Dr.McNinja]

5khb, i did this once, but i didnt get any tank kills, just farmed and bought/upgraded in the battlefield since its so close.

Heli TP bot > buy 3 bonfires and upgrade 1 > kill creep > upgrade again = 5k = 400dps
farm 500g in 3 mins and you have yourself 450dps

[Gammagulp]

Well, back to the upgrades.
I played some games now and I think the system is cool, but a bit to strong. I could swear there was a time my force get no upgrade and the enemy 3. After that we always got 1 upgrade as exo dexcribed.

The Problem is, if you lost 2 CPs because of bad situations and the enemy do everything to defend after 15 minutes:
(15min)--> 3*2000Gold team 1 = 6000 => 4 Upgrades (2Att, 2Def usally)
(15min)--> 3*4000Gold team 2 = 12000 => 8 Upgrades (4Att, 4Def usally)

if you lost them after 25 minutes it means 7/7 creeps vs 9/9 creeps. Which is reall hard to get back.

Now the imbalance factor. EVERY Item wich refers to force upgrades will be weaker for one force and stronger for the other.

In my example:
Force 1
Mines: +21% Damage
Orbital Control: +35% Damage
Player Creeps like Lava servants,Ghosts... weaker
...

Force 2
Mines: +27% Damage
Orbital Control: +45% Damage
Player Creeps like Lava servants,Ghosts... stronger


Now the problem: I saw guys getting some CP´s and defending. Then they build the factories mid and pushed so hard with troop strategy, just because their creeps got bonus upgrades. There was no chance fighting them back as earlier in the game.
The troop strategy is a good one and difficult to counter if the enemy has good mates. But in this case its really ...... annoying :mrgreen:

(Did I forget the problem of getting bigger tanks (Sky fortress, infernal, Titan) easier/earlier for the attackers

If I could make a suggestion here:
Can we change that money pool, so that you give the force maybe 2400Gold and
200Gold/CP.
So:
3CPs => 3000Gold=> 2 Upgrades in 5min
6CPs => 3600Gold=> 2,4 Upgrades in 5min
0CPs => 2400Gold=> 1.6 Upgrades in 5min

Otherwise I fear the money difference is to big hock:

[Althend]

Well, back to the upgrades.
I played some games now and I think the system is cool, but a bit to strong. I could swear there was a time my force get no upgrade and the enemy 3. After that we always got 1 upgrade as exo dexcribed.

The Problem is, if you lost 2 CPs because of bad situations and the enemy do everything to defend after 15 minutes:
(15min)--> 3*2000Gold team 1 = 6000 => 4 Upgrades (2Att, 2Def usally)
(15min)--> 3*4000Gold team 2 = 12000 => 8 Upgrades (4Att, 4Def usally)

if you lost them after 25 minutes it means 7/7 creeps vs 9/9 creeps. Which is reall hard to get back.

Now the imbalance factor. EVERY Item wich refers to force upgrades will be weaker for one force and stronger for the other.

In my example:
Force 1
Mines: +21% Damage
Orbital Control: +35% Damage
Player Creeps like Lava servants,Ghosts... weaker
...

Force 2
Mines: +27% Damage
Orbital Control: +45% Damage
Player Creeps like Lava servants,Ghosts... stronger


Now the problem: I saw guys getting some CP´s and defending. Then they build the factories mid and pushed so hard with troop strategy, just because their creeps got bonus upgrades. There was no chance fighting them back as earlier in the game.
The troop strategy is a good one and difficult to counter if the enemy has good mates. But in this case its really ...... annoying :mrgreen:

(Did I forget the problem of getting bigger tanks (Sky fortress, infernal, Titan) easier/earlier for the attackers

If I could make a suggestion here:
Can we change that money pool, so that you give the force maybe 2400Gold and
200Gold/CP.
So:
3CPs => 3000Gold=> 2 Upgrades in 5min
6CPs => 3600Gold=> 2,4 Upgrades in 5min
0CPs => 2400Gold=> 1.6 Upgrades in 5min

Otherwise I fear the money difference is to big hock:

After some game, I also think that it is a bit too much since it makes people mass creep and give too much advantages too the attacker. I am positive to increase incentive to get pc but this incentive makes it much more hard. Maybe reduce it or make penality for too big camping in cp?

[GooglyBoogly]

I really like the new system, but then again I was always a big fan of -cv too.
The new upgrades system makes pretty much any normal game play like -cv, since 15 mins of all cps is a massive 9k differential in upgrades. (-1.5k / 5 mins for them, +1.5k /5mins for you)

II would agree that for those who prefer that their opponents actually have to work hard to take out the base, and not just sit in their cps that there should be some way to disable, or strongly weaken this.

[Gammagulp]

Changing from 500 Extragold/CP to 200Extragold/CP means a 40% effect of how it works now. If Exo decides to change it I think he should decide how much % of the actual effect to take. It is just important, that with 3CP´s you get 2Upgrades every 5min (or 3000Money in the upgrade Pool)