Add Armor Requirements to Tanks below 10,000 gold?

[Exodus]

Hey there,

some of you have been suggesting this quite often, so I thought I'll finally add a poll for this. I think, as everyone already knows, that the Heavy Tank is the reason for this. But also the stronger focus on new tanks, rather than new weapons or other equipment.

The idea is to add an Armor Upgrade restriction to the tanks below 10,000 gold, equal to their own armor (or 1 or 2 levels lower). But to keep the variety at the beginning of the game, those restrictions should not be added to tanks below 3000 gold (including Shredder).

Post your opinion about this!

[TKF]

Well I think it will make the start tanks used longer, like it was when the iron hull could be upgraded to gold hull in the older versions.

One question about tech restriction which follow armor logic:
The guard has 6 armor, but costs 5000 gold. Will it have 1 step higher tech restriction than heavy tank cuz of that?

[horselance]

Well i suggested before, it can be HP/1000 rounded down, instead armor. Only exception is infernal. And also not including <3k tanks.
But it can be really boring not to be able to buy tanks while u got the money.

[DerSatan]

i support also baseHP/1000 rounded down for every tank above shredder.

[Exodus]

Well I think it will make the start tanks used longer, like it was when the iron hull could be upgraded to gold hull in the older versions.

One question about tech restriction which follow armor logic:
The guard has 6 armor, but costs 5000 gold. Will it have 1 step higher tech restriction than heavy tank cuz of that?

Really? Hm, it shouldnt be this way.

[DerSatan]

either every tank above 3k should have armor requirements, or no one.



maybe you could decrease the cost of the upgrades to 1000 without giving reinforcements. i never saw someone not selling the reinforcements, so i think they arent really useful. with selling reeinforcements, the upgrades cost 1300 gold at the moment. i think with a cost of 1000, people will buy them even to get middleclass tanks.

[ycoseth]

I think if it went like:

Thunder Tank/Ghost Tank: 2
Heavy Tank/Guard: 3 (maybe HT 4, but likely not, 20 seems too long)
Goblin Tank: 4
Sky Tank: 6
Demon Tank: 8

That would be excellent, -2 under armor seems fine. It encourages earlier combat and skill, and everyone will know when the biggies can start to hit, makes each and every 5-min mark count, instead of not caring til 1-hour or so.

Earlier today I was able to feed off this guy and I had a Demon Tank at 23min into the game with a Basic Magic and Swarm Rockets. It was silly, I had no reason to upgrade because he was saving for Heavy Tank so he didn't upgrade either, I killed him so much and creeped so much more than him with just Anti-Grav/BM that I got a Swarm Rocket then got 10k and creamed his whole team. The rest of the team was playing fine, pretty much a stalemate but I cleared the game because half of them were free rocket kills and the other half rocket/aoe kills.

I really hope this change goes in, getting a HT before 15 minutes or a a Demon before 30 seems insane game-altering on power alone, disregarding skill.

[Visjeplus]

I am not in favor of adding the armor restrictions, i am afraid it will only make people buy weapons faster and so become more expensive when dieing, not adding to the overall balancing. It may have been mentioned before, somewhere on the forum, but why not make the hulls a little cheaper, then it will be easier to chose for a Hp upgrade instead of an bigger tank, as it is, it is to expensive to go for a hull a lot of the times. This lowering of the hull cost would make chosing a hull or bigger tank more in ballance with each other and also give a more diverse option pallet to chose from.

[Prog]

1) I don't like the idea of restricting everything, which will make bt quite monotone, due to the fact that the diversity of strategies decreases with the increase the amount of requirement. This could be observed quite well by watching the change of the general gamestyle after the implementation of armor requirements for Inf (& Factory). Nowadays it's every game nearly the same strat after ~55 min gametime. Everyone saves gold and in 1:15:01 most get (or try to get) inf (unless someone tries to make upgrades, then it might be earlier)

2) Well playing in early game won't be as advantageously as it is now. Currently the one playing better in the early game can change tank earlier and creates quite some pressure, especially on the lanes. By implementing requirements this won't happen (He may get hull and weapons, but the pressure will be far lower). This might extend game time as well.

3) Light Tank and Helicopter will be weaker in comparison to Demo, Antigrav and Shredder. Light Tanks and Helicopters will have to get a hull, the other ones not, due to their higher hp and stronger skills. Especially Antigrav might get overpowered with his jump+stun against low hp tanks. Currently the Antigrav has his disadvantage in the fact that when he got Multi Bow + Ice Cannon/Machine Gun (+ Hull) the other player can change tank quite soon, but with the requirements he will be forced to camp at his control point and/or get at least a steel hull (won't be enough).

[DerSatan]

what about just trying giving every tank a restriction, and implementing "tank restriction" (yes/no) to custom mode?

[ycoseth]

I would also be in favor of lowering hull costs drastically.

Currently, the choice between a Hull and a new Tank is skewered towards new Tank, since a bigger tank also has more HP, but also better armor and better skills.

Let's stay you are in a LT and trying to decide on a Gold Hull:

LT + Gold Hull (5800)= 5k HP, 0-1 Armor, tier 1 skills
HT (5500) = 5.5K HP, 5 Armor, Tier 2 skills

The Hull is more expensive and a weaker choice. Same goes for mid-to-high transition:

HT + Gold Hull (10500) = 9.5k HP, 5 Armor, Tier 2 skills
Demon Tank (10000) = 10k HP, 10 Armor, Tier 3 Skills

It's rarely a good choice to get a hull and often just done in order to prevent farming (ie, you get a Hull as a tinker, or you get a Hull as a LT/Heli when someone gets a bigger tank), as reactionary move instead of extending the life of a tank you happen to like, which is I believe the intent of the hull.

I'd be in favor of making hulls cost 75% of their HP bonus, so Iron Hull = 750, Steel Hull = 1875 and Gold Hull 3000. Then it actually becomes an interesting choice.

[horselance]

In examples something is missing. You can upgrade your hull any time to get more HP then a HT with a LT. And while you got 7k HP and HT have 5500 HP, after a while you will buy a better tank. But when HT wants to buy a better tank, he will lose 2750 gold. But you will keep your 6k HP in your inventory!!!
You always gotta sell your tank to buy a new tank(50% cost lost), but you keep your hull (no lose).
Hull Cost/HP cant be less than 1.00. now it is 1.25. And it is good. Flying tanks Cost/HP is near 1.25 . So it is normal!

[Visjeplus]

Yes horcelance, thats true and so I do not want to go as far as 75%/HP, lets see what are the pros and cons.

Pros of Hull:
You keep it when you buy a new tank.
You can upgrade it when you have the money.

Cons of Hull:
Low value for money.
It will take up an item spot.
In end game, more often then not you will sell the Hull (especially the little hulls).

If there are more pros or cons, i would be glade to hear from you.

As a lot will agree with me (i hope) at this point the Hulls (especially the iron and steel hull as they cann't be upgraded with a repair item) are a little less likely to be chosen by players vs a new tank. So I would suggest lowering the hull costs to 100%/Hp or 110%/Hp to make it more viable to chose them and be on par with chosing a new tank. This would lessen the need for a Armor requirements under 10000K. I may even want to go as far as to suggest to add a even bigger hull, which may even remove the need for the armor requirements all together........ Or will this last statement lead me into a flaming war :wink:

Visjeplus

[ycoseth]

Or have hull add to Armor Value. If a Hull gave 4000 and 4 ARM, then a LT/Gold Hull would be near equivalent to HT at the same price. You still lose the better skills, but if Hulls are designed to let you play your favorite tank longer than normal, the ARM bonus goes a long way to achieving that, making tanks like the Demolisher and Anti-Grav and Shredder usable late in the game, the increased Armor making their HP somewhat comparable to a bigger tank's HP.

[Vomitus]

So I would suggest lowering the hull costs to 100%/Hp or 110%/Hp to make it more viable to chose them and be on par with chosing a new tank.

It even could be like this:
Iron Hull = 1000 gold(100%)
Steel Hull = 2000 gold(100%)
Gold Hull = 4500 gold(112.5%) - due to its' numerous significant advantages over smaller hulls(upgradable to Power Pack, the biggest possible Hull itself, etc.).