Suggestion for the trader

[Giftfinger]

Well i admit the trader is much better balanced than earlier, but there is still a big problem with it, usually the team with the trader wins ^^

Because of his new weaknesses he is not taken so often like in ealier versions, but i think two changes would make the trader even more balanced.

1) The trader is able to trade a factory for i think only 5 goods. Only one of this five goods is hard to get (for one force its the skelett). If you compare this the the costs of the troopcommand which is 7 goods, you will see that there should be some balance. Especially if you remember that the costs for the factories where already increased too 3500 gold. And even if you trade 5 goods (5 skeletts) you will get max 2500gold - for you alone only 1250. (keep in mind the factory costs 3500)
As suggestion i would make the factories cost 3 skeletts instead of the 1 now and the 4 other goods.
And the trader should not be able to buy the factories for gold.

2) At the moment your team will get the money from you each time you bring your goods to the trademaster. That additional gold is the fact that your team is rather fast able to buy better weapons and tanks as your enemy.
To make it a bit harder i suggest the following: I would still give the half of the trader income the trader, but the other part i would just collect and give it the team at the same time as it gets the income of his force. (so every 5min)
What should that be good for?
You see your team still gets the same amount of money, but it does not get it in small rates, it has too wait for some time to get the gold from the trader. That is interesting if the players needs only 200-300 gold for a new tank or a strong weapon. Normally they would just say i need gold and you would sell your goods at the trademaster and they would have the money. If that change is made they get less often tradergold and can get only a higher income from the force (if you want so), but they have to fight if they need gold fast and that is the chance for the other team.

sry for mistakes, I am not great in other languages

[TKF]

You are absolutely right in your first point. That factory resource requirement was based on 2k fabs. And It has been so for like 40-50 versions, and during that time fab is worth 1.5k more, while goods requirement is exactly the same.

At the second point, your team will get about little of nothing of the trade gold, read this thread you see that force gold is extremely low. http://forum.btanks.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=703. I would not recommend such idea.

[Giftfinger]

You are absolutely right in your first point.

=)

to the second point:

no they shall not get the gold as force gold only at the same time - i just called it so to make it more transparent

but the other part i would just collect and give it the team at the same time as it gets the income of his force. (so every 5min)

I mean that you get every 5min two different amounts of gold - one of the force like now and the second one the amount you would have got from the trader in the last 5 min.
I can unterstand if there are some problems for the mappers to creat this, but i dont think that that would be impossible ^^

[Tribulation]

Does anybody actually still choose Trader? I have hosted a lot of pub games during the last weeks, and I have seen one Trader. I know of some people who only host games in "no Trader"-mode since they fear that Trader is either too strong in pub games, giving his team too much extra money (since actively fighting a trader is a lot of work and keeps the player from farming as efficiently as he could if he was not fighting a trader), or weakens his team in case he sucks, dies too often and does not fight actively for at least quite some time. Therefore, I would say: remove the trader from "Normal Mode" and make it available via "Trader Mode", or remove it altogether. Opinions?

[Vomitus]

@Tribulation:
Bad idea.
Removing trader - is removing one extra tank from the game, removing a whole strategy, and so and so.

My suggestion is to make Trader even more profitable - at least his deeds should give visible and noticable results. But Also make hunting trader to worth it. And for trader - make his life more dangerous and any trader's fault should be punished greatly.
Example(parts are located towards increasing their insanity).
1. Trader gets MUCH more money for trading items that are located on an enemy territory. But killing a trader with his loot makes killer team gain 50% of all that stuff a trader was carrying(distributed among players of killer team).
2. Along with increasing trade profit for some items increase their respawn time. Decrease profit and respawn time for 'safe' items(located on your territory). Set 80 seconds for most expensive item, 60 for less expensive, 40 for mid item(just approximately).
3. Change Monopoly skill to be needed only one trade to activate and each level decreases trading post cooldown by some percentage(18% + 8%/lvl. 50% on lvl5).

Additional:
4. Make Trader unable to buy ANY items for gold. Make all his trade money be transfered to team.
5. Make all items available for trader to carry to be able to buy for items(make new shops OR add triggers to existent shops for traders when they try to buy something).
6. When changing to Trader or backward your gold is exchanged into wood and vice versa by the rate 100:1(100 gold for 1 wood).

More Additional:
7. Make Trader able to carry weapons and hulls.

A bit global suggestion, well...

[Giftfinger]

Well i dont want to change trader complettly

i think him rather good balanced - but to make it perfekt there should only be small changes like my two suggestions.

to your ideas i think they would be a mistake - than its like bship (buying weapons...) and i really dislike the trader in bships.

[Tribulation]

Sure, removing Trader would eliminate a whole strategy, but as I think that BT should be about fighting, not trading and then flooding the enemy with an army of upgraded creeps from factories, against which you can't really do a thing if the Trader is fast enough. It was just a suggestion, there's no point of keeping Trader if it is scarcely used at all.

If the Trader were allowed to carry weapons, the whole concept would become imba and would be turned upside down: just trade, get a bow for harvesting the creeps you encounter, and become even richer. Also, you would have a farming machine with excellent escape mechanisms. Imagine this: you capture a point when you manage to get behind the enemies' lines, you got a weapon and can go invis - sounds imba to me.

I doubt that many players would want to trader with all profit (or almost all) going to their mates, trading is a pretty boring and event-less job, apart from the occasional escapes - it would become more unattractive if there were no money for yourself to make.

I admit that I don't like Trader in general, so naturally I am opposed to boosting it, it already is powerful if done right.

[Giftfinger]

I want to remined the mappers to increase the costs for the trader factory to the actuall worth

[Duke7]

I think increase trade item to purchase factory is good idea since on server i play trader always trading for factory - -

and about trading for money, I think trader is already good on it loop trade is gain a lot of trade item and more money if u have troop command u also able to farm from creep and if ur enemy is very noob u can use obital control to kill them or even use heavy mine to finish them off.
for me I prefer pump up the money and then change tank to fighting > <

[Morkardar]

I suggest trader only gets money and not the team as well.
The trader should get less income to balance it.
The main problem with trader is not the trader itself, allthough he can become very wealthy and powerful.
The problem is the team with more weapons and better tanks earlier than the other team, dominating the game from the beginning,
which allows the trader to become even more successful because no one can hunt him anymore.

[SCorpA1]

but if the team dont get money and the trader less, the trader is sensless, because your team miss a tank and the other team outnumerber you.

[Vomitus]

PLaying with trader implies teamplay more involved than any other playing style tend to. Only when each of 10 players understands and plays his chosen role in the game - that is the case when a trader can be judged impartially.

[Morkardar]

If there is no teamplay on enemy team, trader wins.
If there is no teamplay on both teams, trader wins.
If there is teamplay on both teams, trader wins.
If there is teamplay on own team, trader double wins.
If there is teamplay on enemy team, trader has not yet lost.

Trader supports his team with money in ANY case.
In 4 of this cases trader will be successful.
In 1 of this cases trader will be successful with minor drawbacks.

[Vomitus]

clear...

[TKF]

Super early factories without team upgrades


The goods cost for factories should be increased, or else he get it before 15 min has passed and that's cheat imo when no one else is allowed to buy it when the text is less than 4; aka 20 mins and trader can get it easily in about 15 min or so by trading with the goods to get the factory.

This is the abusable part with the trader.

[Vomitus]

clear...

but not at all.

@Morkardar:
Playing trader in public games is always a gamble - you need some men in your party playing at least no worse than you do and you need strong support from your team. Because even one man in opposite team able to hunt you will destroy your trader development without your mates' interaction.

So what I wanted to say is that you can judge trader for its advantages and drawbacks in only one of four cases you described: when both teams involved in teamplay.

And I don't agree with this:

If there is teamplay on both teams, trader wins.

Because in such case everything is dependent on a players' skills.

[Giftfinger]

well at least most players agree to increase the goods cost for factory

The goods cost for factories should be increased

so i hope the mappers will correct this in the next versions.

[SCorpA1]

but didnt see the case trader in both teams...
because trader in both teams is also possible!
in a bt game i saw in the other team a trader, so i buyed a trader, too.
my team won, because i already had troop command and i could hunt the enemy trader, too.
i think the teleporter needs too much goods, because you need 90 wood for it...
i think some trade things are not bought, because you need too much wood and in early game you havent got much wood

[xXxPownedxXx]

I play trader now & then, and to be honest, it isn't easy at all to be a good one. Your team must have some skills & teamplay.

As trader, whenever it reaches team upgarde 4armor & 4 weap (20 mins) i can spawn 3 facs and if i kept entire time tower mid (my team misses tank and plays defensive mid) i can even get some upgrades (2 orso). This is imba if u got pro team... IF

Ever played against a trader with huge mines & orbital strike + ulti pack? Well i'll make it easy, no way u can hunt it, and if u dont watch it, it kills u. I get with trader atleast in one game 10 kills. I even was tank killer once... As trader, no the enemy wasnt noob, i just had a team who captured best trade route and saved my ass when i got hunted. So 3 facs orbital and mines of 5dmg+. This is imba shit folks.

Trader has one negative thing, the magic barrier skill. My opinion? freaking useless. If u get skill coming toward, example heavy tank rocket. U just go invis or the invul shield and u survive...

I'd really love to see this one replaced with something ... more useful? Maybe the scouts rune carving or so. That one has some use... Or a skill which allows trader to go faster, speed bonus or so? (not too big, maybe lvl 1 +10 lvl 5 +50) and make that one stackable... Or it's useless again... :/

Trader is balanced for now. And the handy part, if u trade fast enough, i managed to get a demon and kill others who had 2 weaps, iron hull and light tank or something, demon skills ftw.

It's balanced... And has a useless?? skill

[Giftfinger]

Trader has one negative thing, the magic barrier skill. My opinion? freaking useless. If u get skill coming toward, example heavy tank rocket. U just go invis or the invul shield and u survive...

don't know what you have - of cource the two other skill are for the trader more usefull - but with magic barrier you can save your allied. Don't forget you can use it on them too. And if they are in a constand fight it is rather powerfull to have some live more than the other tank, especially in the early game.