Does remove fuse suck hard? Or the hulls pwn mines better?

[TKF]

Does remove fuse suck hard? Or the hulls pwn mines better?



The defuse kit is a little expensive. Also the remote fuse cost 1250 gold. I see sometimes people buy only radar, cuz it cost only 1000 gold, while the fuse cost 1250 gold, but the radar is far better cuz you can avoid the mines effectively and SEE them. I've not seen anyone buying the remote fuse ALONE without radar, other then myself. If you only have remote fuse you are in danger of running into mines.

Only against players using only demolisher mines, it's not worth the investment.



I find the hulls better, cuz then you can detonate the mines and return to heal. Best defusing kit you get is gold hull xD. Well I was thinking on demolisher mines.



What if remote fuse did cost 1000 gold? Well maybe to cheap?


______

Well as for me I still go hulls and slowly detonating mines 1 by 1. I'm only buying defuse if the enemy buys big mines.

[Saiyuki]

remote fuse or hull? simple question. taking hull isn't only effective for mines, so the comparison between them itself kinda sucks. ^^

[Althend]

I would add a stun effect of 1.5 sec to remote fuse to make it more interesting :p (or a mana/heal provider)

[GooglyBoogly]

My thoughts on the remote fuse:

http://forum.btanks.net/viewtopic.php?f=...224#p28224

[TKF]

remote fuse or hull? simple question. taking hull isn't only effective for mines, so the comparison between them itself kinda sucks. ^^

Well this is a greater reason to pick hull instead of wasting money of defuser kits.




btw don't the remote fuser have the same AOE as defuse pack? Well if not it should.

[DOGG1]

The defuse needs to be reworked somehow.

If you invest 2.5 or 5k in mines, some guy can just buy a defuser and wards and you will be screwed. It's too cheap.

[Equiem]

The defuse needs to be reworked somehow.
If you invest 2.5 or 5k in mines, some guy can just buy a defuser and wards and you will be screwed.

But you have to invest quite a lot into the defuser/kit(I really dont see that much use for the current defuser without kit and the kit is a healthy 4k-ish).
Lets say one player on the opposite team has mines and you buy the defuser + some observer wards. The mine player can still use his mines to great effect at hard to spot places like under trees, healers, change lane or just sell it. He would still have the benefit of the mines up to that point. The guy with the defuser will most likely not get his cash back since there's not really that much he can use his defuser for and you'll have the advantage over him for some time.

I've tried playing with the defuser and it's in most cases a lot better to just get a hull. The exception being a really stupid player that keeps using his mines near his own team.

It's too cheap.

And it's really cheap using mines.

[GooglyBoogly]

btw don't the remote fuser have the same AOE as defuse pack? Well if not it should.

no, they don;t.
That is the point of the thread I linked to in my previous post.

http://forum.btanks.net/viewtopic.php?f=...224#p28224

They were originally the same, but then the defuse kit was buffed, since everyone was moaning about mines.

[griffin1987]

Mines are getting more useless over game time, as well as most people don't want to waste money or space for the defusing kit / fuse pack. That being said I'd add another mine size for 10k or maybe some other mine types which would do less damage but stun the target (should be possible with triggers, right?). Also, I'd increase the range of the radar a bit as well as change the damage of the mines - the small mines should deal less damage, while the normal and huge mines should deal more, I'd say. Would make them used more often.

Next problem is: While the defusing pack is costly against small mines, it's way too cheap if you're up against someone with all 3 mine sizes or even someone with only huge mines.

But after all mines are pretty much only valuable till midgame, because later on almost everyone get's themself an ultimate pack with radar and a big fat tank, both which together are easy playable against some mines.

(on the other hand note that it's still possible killing a titan with some mines when played right, but i doubt we should start talking about pros toying with noobs, as that would defeat any reason i think)

Cheers

[IlPalazzo]

Does remove fuse suck hard? Or the hulls pwn mines better?

The defuse kit is a little expensive. Also the remote fuse cost 1250 gold. I see sometimes people buy only radar, cuz it cost only 1000 gold, while the fuse cost 1250 gold, but the radar is far better cuz you can avoid the mines effectively and SEE them. I've not seen anyone buying the remote fuse ALONE without radar, other then myself. If you only have remote fuse you are in danger of running into mines.

Only against players using only demolisher mines, it's not worth the investment.



I find the hulls better, cuz then you can detonate the mines and return to heal. Best defusing kit you get is gold hull xD. Well I was thinking on demolisher mines.



What if remote fuse did cost 1000 gold? Well maybe to cheap?


______

Well as for me I still go hulls and slowly detonating mines 1 by 1. I'm only buying defuse if the enemy buys big mines.

I guess if you wanted to play it safe you could buy a hull/radar, but does that mean the remote fuse is useless? Hell no! It's the most fun item in the game.

Oddly, I rarely buy the radar and only buy the remote fuse to fight miners. Did you know that when you use the remote fuse, the mines explode as if they were yours? This means any tanks or creeps that the mine blows up gives you bounty... It's entertaining when you wait for his allies run over his mines and you blow them up on them. Better yet, there's nothing more gratifying than waiting for the enemy miner to place his mines down, and as he does it detonate them in his face. You get an easy kill on him using HIS mines - and you don't even have to heal. :lol: So, not only are you making a +2500 gold item useless, you're making him a liability to the team and making some money back while you're at it.

There are three things to tell where enemy mines are being place.
1. The enemy miner can't place a mine anywhere he hasn't step over. Obvious - I know, but if you keep track of where he's moving you know where you can and can't move... Obviously if he rushing forward into your creeps without a weapon he's trying to put something down. If he rushes to the healer and doesn't grab it, he probably put one down. If you keep track of where you enemy moves you can generally get a feel of where he is placing mines... And the obvious places you can just deduce: narrow passage ways, near healers, by entrances, factories, etc.
2. The enemy tends to pause for a second after he places a mines down. Again, if he's rushing up into your creeps and he pauses, he probably put something down...
3. Since the fuse will tell you how many mines are nearby, always use it when the cooldown is ready.

...

The remote fuse is fine as it is, and if you practice with it... It's much better than just running your tank into them with a hull.

[ericgrau]

I think the issue is not whether or not remove fuse is worth it against a miner, it is, but whether or not it's better than a hull. Frankly mines only work when you opponent has no idea what's going on and thinks he is blowing up randomly. Otherwise mines are easy to overcome even with no more hull than I'd buy normally, then intentionally hitting mines before there's too many. Vs. an enemy that only buys a mine pack or two, this is plenty and remove fuse won't do much for you against so few mines. If someone lays a billion mines then, yes, remote fuse is much better than hull, but by then the enemy has double or triple the cost of a defuse pack dedicated to mines... probably all he has. Then you buy a cheaper item that forces him to sell everything he has or just leave the game. Then you can sell the defuse pack (or w/e) for half and you don't lose much. Even if the miner did nothing for a while (which hurts their team) and aha went back to mining, you just buy the defuse pack back for half.

So the real issue is that mines suck hard... except when pwning people who don't know about them. There needs to be some kind of middle ground, like a distinct animation or message letting the new player know that it was a mine that hit him and not some random explosion. Then mines need to be made better, and defusable but somewhat harder to defuse. I mean you can't easily negate an exploder with hull, why can you easily negate a dedicated mine layer with hull? But then again exploder also needs to be made weaker, b/c any idiot can camp factories and other major points and tele w/e tank he sees on the enemy team regardless of its health. Meanwhile dropping tele wards is effective but only barely so and it's a major PITA that no one wants to do... and then you don't even get the kill gold for it. Fighting a miner isn't so much of a struggle.

[IlPalazzo]

I think the issue is not whether or not remove fuse is worth it against a miner, it is, but whether or not it's better than a hull. Frankly mines only work when you opponent has no idea what's going on and thinks he is blowing up randomly. Otherwise mines are easy to overcome even with no more hull than I'd buy normally, then intentionally hitting mines before there's too many. Vs. an enemy that only buys a mine pack or two, this is plenty and remove fuse won't do much for you against so few mines. If someone lays a billion mines then, yes, remote fuse is much better than hull, but by then the enemy has double or triple the cost of a defuse pack dedicated to mines... probably all he has. Then you buy a cheaper item that forces him to sell everything he has or just leave the game. Then you can sell the defuse pack (or w/e) for half and you don't lose much. Even if the miner did nothing for a while (which hurts their team) and aha went back to mining, you just buy the defuse pack back for half.

So the real issue is that mines suck hard... except when pwning people who don't know about them. There needs to be some kind of middle ground, like a distinct animation or message letting the new player know that it was a mine that hit him and not some random explosion. Then mines need to be made better, and defusable but somewhat harder to defuse. I mean you can't easily negate an exploder with hull, why can you easily negate a dedicated mine layer with hull? But then again exploder also needs to be made weaker, b/c any idiot can camp factories and other major points and tele w/e tank he sees on the enemy team regardless of its health. Meanwhile dropping tele wards is effective but only barely so and it's a major PITA that no one wants to do... and then you don't even get the kill gold for it. Fighting a miner isn't so much of a struggle.

The thing I don't like about buying a hull to defuse mines is that your allies who don't have a hull run the chance of hitting the mines themselves, giving the miner profit. It also forces you to run back and forth, forcing you to give up valuable time spent on creep time, which becomes an increasing problem as they place them closer and closer to their base.

The thing that makes the Remote Fuse better is that it's unexpected. Once you learn to track the miners movements, you can scan the area (the Fuse pings mines in a 700 radius) to tell where he's placing them. If he places them on a healer, you can blow up tanks that are trying to heal. If he places them by his base, you can hit them as they come out of it. If he places it close to your side of the creeps, you can use it as a way to defend your area or a way to kill your own creeps (denying the other team bounty for killing creeps). Enemy miners don't expect to be killed by their own mines, and their teammates don't expect to be killed by their allied mines. Even if he only lays one or two mines, by the time him and his teammates start dying he'll be pressured into selling them, because at that point there's no question about it - the mines are a disadvantage to their team.

Nonetheless I have to agree, if your team is somewhat decent at Btanks mines are a crappy item to get all around.