We discussed the Guard a bit lately, therefore the remake in the recent beta version.
However, the Tank Cannon is not reworked yet, although it was a topic to change it as well.
I want to discuss Guards Tank Cannon in this thread. Is the Tank Cannon even useful on Guard? Which are the alternatives? Tell us your opinion, and maybe more possible Alternatives as well.
1st Alternative coming from the older Guard thread: Replace the Tank Cannon with a passive skill which upgrades/buffs the treants the Guard spawns (i think this came from VuDu, maybe he can tell us a bit more?)
2nd Alternative coming from internal forums: The Tank Cannon remains its functionality while the Guard is not rooted. While he is rooted, the range upgrades to 1300, the cooldown becomes ~2 seconds and you can manually aim at targets you want to shoot at. The damage/level is to be balanced, as well as wether this attack should be able to target buildings or not.
Paladon commented skeptical on 2nd, as he feared a long range attack (especially with the anti-building thing) could make the Guard superior.
Well I keep to my suggestion : just keep the Guard as he is right now but split the root again into root and healing and replace the tank cannon with the new Treant ability
I cannot stand the guard cannon its a useless ability, the point of the guard was to have a support tank but if everyone just wants one more gank tank then remove root and summons and add some damage spells.
If people want it to be what its meant to be (a support tank) then the cannon really needs to go, you don't see tinker, trader or exploder with cannons, hell titan doesn't have a cannon. O.o
Oh, Death, оh Death, oh Death,
No wealth, no ruin, no silver, no gold
Nothing satisfies me but your soul
Oh, Death,
Well I am Death, none can excel,
I'll open the door to heaven or hell.
Oh, Death, оh Death,
my name is Death and the end ïs here...
Tom-Ace Wrote:I cannot stand the guard cannon its a useless ability, the point of the guard was to have a support tank but if everyone just wants one more gank tank then remove root and summons and add some damage spells.
If people want it to be what its meant to be (a support tank) then the cannon really needs to go, you don't see tinker, trader or exploder with cannons, hell titan doesn't have a cannon. O.o
Medivac is support tank too.
Making a long range canon is not something that rely on its goal as support... buff the treant is not about suppport too... It is about camping... ^_^
I am so good that I don't even need to type -rc because I never die !
Tom-Ace Wrote:I cannot stand the guard cannon its a useless ability, the point of the guard was to have a support tank but if everyone just wants one more gank tank then remove root and summons and add some damage spells.
If people want it to be what its meant to be (a support tank) then the cannon really needs to go, you don't see tinker, trader or exploder with cannons, hell titan doesn't have a cannon. O.o
How about a self defense shield, for time when people teleport right ontop of the guard to try to kill the guard with close range weapons + advanced troops command?
or maybe the exact opposite, teleport swap (like the gobling tank) so you can teleport the enemy from far away right into your reach, then combo it with ultimate + creeps :wink:
Tom-Ace Wrote:I cannot stand the guard cannon its a useless ability, the point of the guard was to have a support tank but if everyone just wants one more gank tank then remove root and summons and add some damage spells.
If people want it to be what its meant to be (a support tank) then the cannon really needs to go, you don't see tinker, trader or exploder with cannons, hell titan doesn't have a cannon. O.o
Medivac is support tank too.
Making a long range canon is not something that rely on its goal as support... buff the treant is not about suppport too... It is about camping... ^_^
I feel medivac is a combat support tank, its fast and has two spells that damage (thrust and cannon) however guard is meant to be rooted, all someone has to do is get 50 out of range of its cannon and they are fine because it cannot chase, i do not like that idea of a long range cannon of any kind.
And i find guard to be a mini CP, just move to a spot and help your team capture a CP or push base. On a side note i have a build i call asshole build i just get heavy tank with mortar skill max + troop command + mortar pack + 400 single use mortars, with that build you can summon 12 mortars and destroy base really fast, many people think i am dumb when i sell every weapon i have to do this but i have never lost a game with that build, in the end a tank without guns can win more games then one with. :wink:
Oh, Death, оh Death, oh Death,
No wealth, no ruin, no silver, no gold
Nothing satisfies me but your soul
Oh, Death,
Well I am Death, none can excel,
I'll open the door to heaven or hell.
Oh, Death, оh Death,
my name is Death and the end ïs here...
mini cp? omg.. will be imbalanced!
if the guard ports behind the enemies near the base, roots and all of your team can port there instant will be very bad i think..
and if they all buy mortars the base will fall very fast..
The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
AGGInator Wrote:mini cp? omg.. will be imbalanced!
if the guard ports behind the enemies near the base, roots and all of your team can port there instant will be very bad i think..
and if they all buy mortars the base will fall very fast..
Please before you assume something read the post, i said "And i find guard to be a mini CP, just move to a spot and help your team capture a CP or push base" ''i find'' as in as it is now and i never said anything about being able to TP to it, it heals and has damage reduction and spawns troops so i would call it a mini cp.
Remember folks assuming only makes an ''ass'' out of yourself. :lol:
Oh, Death, оh Death, oh Death,
No wealth, no ruin, no silver, no gold
Nothing satisfies me but your soul
Oh, Death,
Well I am Death, none can excel,
I'll open the door to heaven or hell.
Oh, Death, оh Death,
my name is Death and the end ïs here...
Personally i would feel extremly bored if the guard would be a tank played only in 1 way, that is as some kind of "mini cp" and only support with root. Guard should be able to be played as a combat tank as well - and for that a tank cannon is very important in my opinion (I want to emphasize that Althend allready mentioned one of his guard builds would be impossible without tank cannon).
Prog Wrote:Personally i would feel extremly bored if the guard would be a tank played only in 1 way, that is as some kind of "mini cp" and only support with root. Guard should be able to be played as a combat tank as well - and for that a tank cannon is very important in my opinion (I want to emphasize that Althend allready mentioned one of his guard builds would be impossible without tank cannon).
How does removing a 300dps cannon at max remove the ability to use as a combat tank?
Guard cost 5000 its not a early tank to get you should have many guns by that time making cannon pointless.
Oh, Death, оh Death, oh Death,
No wealth, no ruin, no silver, no gold
Nothing satisfies me but your soul
Oh, Death,
Well I am Death, none can excel,
I'll open the door to heaven or hell.
Oh, Death, оh Death,
my name is Death and the end ïs here...
Prog Wrote:Personally i would feel extremly bored if the guard would be a tank played only in 1 way, that is as some kind of "mini cp" and only support with root. Guard should be able to be played as a combat tank as well - and for that a tank cannon is very important in my opinion (I want to emphasize that Althend allready mentioned one of his guard builds would be impossible without tank cannon).
How does removing a 300dps cannon at max remove the ability to use as a combat tank?
Guard cost 5000 its not a early tank to get you should have many guns by that time making cannon pointless.
It is important since the guard already lack offensive skill.
Making the guard a lame rooting sleepy tank would make it weak. That was the problem of the previous guard. Root the whole game is just boring and a weakness. Being good guard is about knowing when to root/unroot.
Medi has 2 offensive skills? /// Guard also: the cannon and the ulti...
Next time we play together, i will show you my funny guard fighter. You should enjoy it and see that it doesn't lack any support.
(here is a replay with the old versionm the guard fighter build is stil at experimentation stage, did not finalise it)
I am so good that I don't even need to type -rc because I never die !
Prog Wrote:Personally i would feel extremly bored if the guard would be a tank played only in 1 way, that is as some kind of "mini cp" and only support with root. Guard should be able to be played as a combat tank as well - and for that a tank cannon is very important in my opinion (I want to emphasize that Althend allready mentioned one of his guard builds would be impossible without tank cannon).
How does removing a 300dps cannon at max remove the ability to use as a combat tank?
Guard cost 5000 its not a early tank to get you should have many guns by that time making cannon pointless.
It is important since the guard already lack offensive skill.
Making the guard a lame rooting sleepy tank would make it weak. That was the problem of the previous guard. Root the whole game is just boring and a weakness. Being good guard is about knowing when to root/unroot.
Medi has 2 offensive skills? /// Guard also: the cannon and the ulti...
Next time we play together, i will show you my funny guard fighter. You should enjoy it and see that it doesn't lack any support.
(here is a replay with the old versionm the guard fighter build is stil at experimentation stage, did not finalise it)
As Tom-Ace said you'll get enough weapons till you buy Guard and some will be better and besides the tank cannon will be 2-4 lvl so it won't deal much dmg
So you basicaly say "noone ever wants to play starting tank + 1.5-2k weapon -> guard, so it doesnt matter if that is impossible" and "180 dmg/sec (lvl 3) is not relevant (equals more than 2 basic magics!)"?
Sry, but that is just plain wrong. You underestimate the tank cannon and the possiblities due to it.
Quote:As Tom-Ace said you'll get enough weapons till you buy Guard and some will be better and besides the tank cannon will be 2-4 lvl so it won't deal much dmg
You can get the guard in 10-11min. So I don't think that a tiers 2 tanks with only 2k weapon is "enough"
Tank canon is a really important skill during the 20 first min of the game.
I am so good that I don't even need to type -rc because I never die !
VuDu Wrote:I get Guard on 15th minute and i have 2-3 weapons and hull/speed pack
But still he has 2-3 weapons which are not bad
What the Hell.. how did you get that much money in that short time? For 2 Weapons and hull (OR Speed) I need at least 15 Minutes without changing my tank hock:
