Actually leavers will recieve a penalty between -50 and -20 points, linar to stay percentage (theoretical regular maximum point gain/lost are 20 points). But we are not fully satisfied with this setting.
Maybe the community has a better solution to offer how to rate leavers.
Marvin Wrote:The first ten million years were the worst and the second ten million years, they were the worst too. The third ten million years I didn't enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of a decline
Can the liga bot server detect leave/disconnect/being kicked?
For the leaver/dc players, I feel ok for the penalty like -50~-20. Maybe dc penalty can be lower if you can detect it it is a dc or a leave on purpose. (but i guess this is technically impossible)
For the players being kicked, i don't think they should be punished. And i think the bot should be possible to detect if a player is kicked or not.
olivercamel Wrote:Can the liga bot server detect leave/disconnect/being kicked?
For the leaver/dc players, I feel ok for the penalty like -50~-20. Maybe dc penalty can be lower if you can detect it it is a dc or a leave on purpose. (but i guess this is technically impossible)
For the players being kicked, i don't think they should be punished. And i think the bot should be possible to detect if a player is kicked or not.
Which would result in everyone crying "kick plz" and feed on purpose until kicked. Bad idea.
Rather the point loss should depend on the amount of games left. Like 1 leave/month is ok, 2/month -x points, 3/moth -y points... It's frustrating for someone who disconnects once in a while and needs like 10 games to get the points back.
Prog Wrote:Which would result in everyone crying "kick plz" and feed on purpose until kicked. Bad idea.
This is a good point. Yes, you are right.
Maybe it is still too soon to discuss about the point loss when being kicked, because if the "-kick" is disabled there is no such problem anymore. I'd like to see -kick disabled in liga.
Prog Wrote:Rather the point loss should depend on the amount of games left. Like 1 leave/month is ok, 2/month -x points, 3/moth -y points...
I like this idea, but i suggest to make a bigger threshold like: less than n leave / month => no penalty, more than n leave /month => a lot penalty, more than 2x n times leave /month => a lot more penalty ... and eventually make something like ban.
Prog Wrote:[...]Rather the point loss should depend on the amount of games left. Like 1 leave/month is ok, 2/month -x points, 3/moth -y points... It's frustrating for someone who disconnects once in a while and needs like 10 games to get the points back.
I like this idea but should be a quite steep line towards a massive points loss.
-Remove Kick, add kick if afk ~5-10min
-95% stay rate to join the bots, its really not that hard to get if you dont always leave when you're about to loose/bad build/whatever.
-Less then 1/2 Kill Ratio -> Qualifer again until you've become better. I know its not the best stat to track but this is also seriously easy to attain and having stats under this should point towards feeding on purpose.
You can always report players that feed on purpose, flame -> squelch.
I can't even remember my last full time 5vs5 game anymore. Something needs to be done about the random kicks and leavers.
SC2: Equiem (Charcode 990), whisper me if you wish to practise some 1vs1 or grab some achievements
Repeat while playing: "There is no such thing as luck in Btanks" - Now watch yourself improve tenfold
Equiem Wrote:-95% stay rate to join the bots, its really not that hard to get if you dont always leave when you're about to loose/bad build/whatever.
:lol: what's wrong with you?
yes, i think the game quality in league games has risen but now we have to wait about 2-3 times longer until the game is full... with 75% stay!!
how long do you want to wait until the game is full if 95% stay is required? no more comments..
Yes, it will take quite a while until games get full in the start but people will learn and adapt.
I'm confident it would promote less leaving and better games. Just reset the stay rate and add the new requirements.
Do you really want someone with 75% stay on your team? Have you played a single game without a leaver in the current league? Do you realise that 75% is the same as playing with ~1 less player every game?
95% isnt harsh in any way.
SC2: Equiem (Charcode 990), whisper me if you wish to practise some 1vs1 or grab some achievements
Repeat while playing: "There is no such thing as luck in Btanks" - Now watch yourself improve tenfold
in my oppinion 95% is way too high. Just as it is. I dont know for sure, but what about disconnect? Does it count as a leave?... just one example (if it's true) why 95% is just too high.
The other thing is that, like AGGInator said before, it will take too much time, before the games will be full. I admire your confidence in peoples thinking/minds Equiem, but you always have to make clear that, even if you have a couple of intellegent people, most of them, will stay ignorant as they are. so, from that point of view, i say: at least 85% stay but definitely max. 90%!
That's my suggestion.
Cheers and (like always) i say sorry for bad english.
May questions target is about how to handle their points, not any requirements for the bots, thats another question but not mine
Marvin Wrote:The first ten million years were the worst and the second ten million years, they were the worst too. The third ten million years I didn't enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of a decline
In the current beta. If i remember well, there is something like 9000 ranked players. By the system where you win avcerage 10 or lose 10, or lose 40 points if dc/kick/leave all players tends to lose points. You start with 1500 points... If you win one game, you are already in top 2000... (you win 3 games in a row, youare in top 150 lol ) It is kinda weird. Each time you got dc-kick, you have to win something like 4-5 games to recover it.
I suggest some different solution.
The lost of points depends also on the average stay.
If the player has average stay above 95%, he doesn't lose extra points.
Between 85-95, he loses 1,5 x points
Between 75-85, he loses 2 x points
And I think that as the new league start, all "stay" stats should be restarted. People would have to start from a new record.
Concerning the kick system, I suggest that the value of opponents vote is 50% less important.
I also think that a system recording the player initiating the kick is useful. The amount of -kick per game. The it would be possible to impose a ratio kick/game to players. A player with more than 1 kick per 4 games should be unable to play league until he gets back a good ratio trough qualify bot.
I also think that the requirement should not be based on time spending in game but the amount of game where you stay til the end.
Some players may leave 50% of their game but have a ration higher than 75 % T_T, that is a problem
I am so good that I don't even need to type -rc because I never die !
in my oppinion 95% is way too high. Just as it is. I dont know for sure, but what about disconnect? Does it count as a leave?... just one example (if it's true) why 95% is just too high.
The other thing is that, like AGGInator said before, it will take too much time, before the games will be full. I admire your confidence in peoples thinking/minds Equiem, but you always have to make clear that, even if you have a couple of intellegent people, most of them, will stay ignorant as they are. so, from that point of view, i say: at least 85% stay but definitely max. 90%!
I really don't think 95 is that hard to achieve and if you disconnect from more then 5% of your games you should start looking at your connection.
But I do get the other side of things aswell, I just dont think you should loose points playing games with less players all the time. It gets exetremly frustrating so I'm all in favor of harsh rules.
Althend Wrote:[color=#004080][...]
If the player has average stay above 95%, he doesn't lose extra points.
Between 85-95, he loses 1,5 x points
Between 75-85, he loses 2 x points
And I think that as the new league start, all "stay" stats should be restarted. People would have to start from a new record.
Concerning the kick system, I suggest that the value of opponents vote is 50% less important.
I also think that a system recording the player initiating the kick is useful. The amount of -kick per game. The it would be possible to impose a ratio kick/game to players. A player with more than 1 kick per 4 games should be unable to play league until he gets back a good ratio trough qualify bot.
This is how it should be, sounds great
SC2: Equiem (Charcode 990), whisper me if you wish to practise some 1vs1 or grab some achievements
Repeat while playing: "There is no such thing as luck in Btanks" - Now watch yourself improve tenfold
Althend Wrote:In the current beta. If i remember well, there is something like 9000 ranked players. By the system where you win avcerage 10 or lose 10, or lose 40 points if dc/kick/leave all players tends to lose points. You start with 1500 points... If you win one game, you are already in top 2000... (you win 3 games in a row, youare in top 150 lol ) It is kinda weird. Each time you got dc-kick, you have to win something like 4-5 games to recover it.
It's way worse. The better you are, the less points you get per win. So (values are not 100% accurate) say you are above 1600+ points and play common league games (~average of max 1400) you will get maybe 6 (just assuming) points, but if you disconnect in the first few minutes you lose like 48 points. So you need to get at least 8 wins to get the points back, with only ~30 minute games you will need 4 additional hours playtime (winning every single game) just because of a single disconnect.
I really think some system like the one you (Althend) proposed or i did in my first post is necessary as soon as possible.
Ahh I also think that people who get 0 points should be "dead". League bot should tell them something "you are not allowed to play league anymore, you suck as hell"
Instead of starting with 1500 points, I suggest 1000 points so there would be more accounts excluded HAHAHAHAHA
I am so good that I don't even need to type -rc because I never die !
Actually i'm thinking about considering someone stay percentage of the last 20 games and let that somehow influence the leaver penalty - well "somehow" is not defined yet :roll:
Marvin Wrote:The first ten million years were the worst and the second ten million years, they were the worst too. The third ten million years I didn't enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of a decline
eSVau Wrote:Actually leavers will recieve a penalty between -50 and -20 points, linar to stay percentage.
The idea is good, but you should seperate the kick victims from the leavers somehow (I know it is impossible to proof anyone who leaves whether he does on purpose or not, but with the kick function as it is right now, many penalty points are unjust).
penalty = abs(points from this game) + 50 * (1 - <time percantage stayed in this game and 19 games before>)
OT: The Bot cannot distinguish between kick or regular leave both account as "left voluntarily"
Marvin Wrote:The first ten million years were the worst and the second ten million years, they were the worst too. The third ten million years I didn't enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of a decline
I think the only fair means of really evaluating kicks is if a player is doing
hopelessly terrible and they leave past a certain point, then it should not be
harshly dealt with. If they have a low stay percent and low k/d ratio and generally
low game scores than sure, ban the dude. BUT if this is not confirmed by a
high leave rate for 1 game or something then you could assume someone is just
having a bad game or something.
But if you are doing "ok" and then you leave and you have generally ok stats then
you can either assume a disconnect or something. If this person has a reasonably
high leave rate then that's a problem.
If a player always excels then I don't see a huge need for extreme enforcement.
Basically we are all talking about new players who need this kind of restriction.
So the factors that matter:
1) The lateness of the leave (game time) -- in increments of 20 mins. Each situation is different but depending on their k/d ratios at the time...?
2) The person's stay %
3) The person's Kill/Death ratio
4) The person's average score
And perhaps you could take a "snapshot" of the scores by saving the game after
the individual left to see in general where the game "was going".
eSVau Wrote:Neww leaver penalty will be calculated by:
penalty = abs(points from this game) + 50 * (1 - <time percantage stayed in this game and 19 games before>)
.
GameID: 870, Gamename: BTanks League Beta #28114
No penalty for drudat (left at 1:14:00) and kteam (left at 1:14:05). kteam even received a reward (- 0,5) :roll:
