2012-03-05, 12:31:37
(This post was last modified: 2012-03-06, 03:18:52 by olivercamel.)
In this tournament we used "the overall team kills minus deaths" as the 3rd factor to rank the teams. See BTT rule 5.4.
But now I have to admit it is clearly a mistake to use the k-d as a factor.
When making the rules, I thought the k-d might be a good factor because:
1. It is easy to understand/explain. All bt players know what is kill/death.
2. It is easy to calculate. The numbers are shown on the scoreboard. So good for referees.
3. The bt tournament system is a copy from the FIFA football system, where the "goal difference" (goals scored minus goals conceded) is commonly used as a tie breaker.
But after 3 rounds of games, I realized k-d has problems:
1. The BT games have no equal length. This is unlike the football games are all in 90min long. So it means the chance of having kills are not equal.
2. When the skill differences are too big between the 2 teams, the good team can delay the game on purpose to get a better k-d. I used to thought this could not happen, because a good team wouldn't bother to do it. But i was wrong.
3. Getting a kill in BT game is more easier than shootting a goal in the football. When 2 teams have really close k-d, like +/-1, it cannot measure their skills. Also you can easily fake it.
4. I thought with "-giveup" allowed, it will prevent the teams who seek for better K-D on purpose. But I didn't thought enough that some teams would try hard until the last minute.
The Group C games finished yesterday was a good example. 3 teams are with the same points.
And because the win-lose relationship is like a loop:
Seig-GeiL wins OldSchool
OldSchool wins OldScotch
OldScotch wins Seig-GeiL
According to the rules, we need to use the k-d as a tie breaker in this case.
The K-D of all games within group C is like this:
OldSchool (+47)
Seig-GeiL (+42)
OldScotch (+37)
If we follow strictly the BTT rules, OldSchool will end up in 1st rank, because they have 10 more k-d than the 3rd team OldScotch.
But it will be surely unfair to kick out OldScotch.
If you watch the replay of the last OldSchool game vs. BeerTanks. It was clear that they delayed the game on purpose, only because they want to get more kills.
OldSchool could've finish the game much earlier. I'd say within maximum +50 k-d against BeerTanks they could win the game. But they delayed it until they get a good k-d of +70.
If we substract the K-D vs. BeerTanks for all 3 teams, it will be like this:
Sieg-GeiL (+9)
OldScotch (-6)
OldSchool (-23)
This means the OldSchool ranked as 1st only because they kills on purpose a lot more in the game vs. BeerTanks. But Sieg-GeiL, OldScotch didn't do this when they play against BeerTanks.
On 1 side, what team OldSchool did violated the spirit of the sport.
But on the other side, team OldSchool didn't do anything outside the rules. The BTT2012 is a tournament. It is not wrong to do all you can do to get a good result. So on this point, I could understand them. If any other people was at this situation, they might probably do the same.
The BTT rule never allow or encourage any team to fake the K-D on purpose, but it also didn't clearly forbid it. When I write the rules, I assumed all the games finished in a natural way, i.e. no game delay for more k-d like OldSchool did.
So to speak, the BTT rule designer (me) should take the main responsibility. A bad rule can make good people doing bad things.
To summary,
First, I admit the K-D is a bad factor in BT to rank teams. It will not be used anymore in the future BT tournaments (if any). I want to thank Prokrastinat (Frechheit) and other people who mentioned this already long time back, but I didn't listen.
More imporantly, should we fix the bad rule now?
This means we will schedule extra games to decide the final rank between Sieg-GeiL, OldSchool and OldScotch. We will discuss how the extra games will be later. So this is why I start this voting thread. If we have enough supports, we will call BTT Rule 17 to abandon the K-D factor, and schedule extra games for the 3 teams.
p.s. If we abandon the K-D factor, we should also consider team BuG vs. team Boozers situation too.
BuG/Boozers have the same points, but BuG didn't even have the chance to play the 3rd game. Otherwise the K-D could be different.
But now I have to admit it is clearly a mistake to use the k-d as a factor.
When making the rules, I thought the k-d might be a good factor because:
1. It is easy to understand/explain. All bt players know what is kill/death.
2. It is easy to calculate. The numbers are shown on the scoreboard. So good for referees.
3. The bt tournament system is a copy from the FIFA football system, where the "goal difference" (goals scored minus goals conceded) is commonly used as a tie breaker.
But after 3 rounds of games, I realized k-d has problems:
1. The BT games have no equal length. This is unlike the football games are all in 90min long. So it means the chance of having kills are not equal.
2. When the skill differences are too big between the 2 teams, the good team can delay the game on purpose to get a better k-d. I used to thought this could not happen, because a good team wouldn't bother to do it. But i was wrong.
3. Getting a kill in BT game is more easier than shootting a goal in the football. When 2 teams have really close k-d, like +/-1, it cannot measure their skills. Also you can easily fake it.
4. I thought with "-giveup" allowed, it will prevent the teams who seek for better K-D on purpose. But I didn't thought enough that some teams would try hard until the last minute.
The Group C games finished yesterday was a good example. 3 teams are with the same points.
And because the win-lose relationship is like a loop:
Seig-GeiL wins OldSchool
OldSchool wins OldScotch
OldScotch wins Seig-GeiL
According to the rules, we need to use the k-d as a tie breaker in this case.
The K-D of all games within group C is like this:
OldSchool (+47)
Seig-GeiL (+42)
OldScotch (+37)
If we follow strictly the BTT rules, OldSchool will end up in 1st rank, because they have 10 more k-d than the 3rd team OldScotch.
But it will be surely unfair to kick out OldScotch.
If you watch the replay of the last OldSchool game vs. BeerTanks. It was clear that they delayed the game on purpose, only because they want to get more kills.
OldSchool could've finish the game much earlier. I'd say within maximum +50 k-d against BeerTanks they could win the game. But they delayed it until they get a good k-d of +70.
If we substract the K-D vs. BeerTanks for all 3 teams, it will be like this:
Sieg-GeiL (+9)
OldScotch (-6)
OldSchool (-23)
This means the OldSchool ranked as 1st only because they kills on purpose a lot more in the game vs. BeerTanks. But Sieg-GeiL, OldScotch didn't do this when they play against BeerTanks.
On 1 side, what team OldSchool did violated the spirit of the sport.
But on the other side, team OldSchool didn't do anything outside the rules. The BTT2012 is a tournament. It is not wrong to do all you can do to get a good result. So on this point, I could understand them. If any other people was at this situation, they might probably do the same.
The BTT rule never allow or encourage any team to fake the K-D on purpose, but it also didn't clearly forbid it. When I write the rules, I assumed all the games finished in a natural way, i.e. no game delay for more k-d like OldSchool did.
So to speak, the BTT rule designer (me) should take the main responsibility. A bad rule can make good people doing bad things.
To summary,
First, I admit the K-D is a bad factor in BT to rank teams. It will not be used anymore in the future BT tournaments (if any). I want to thank Prokrastinat (Frechheit) and other people who mentioned this already long time back, but I didn't listen.
More imporantly, should we fix the bad rule now?
This means we will schedule extra games to decide the final rank between Sieg-GeiL, OldSchool and OldScotch. We will discuss how the extra games will be later. So this is why I start this voting thread. If we have enough supports, we will call BTT Rule 17 to abandon the K-D factor, and schedule extra games for the 3 teams.
p.s. If we abandon the K-D factor, we should also consider team BuG vs. team Boozers situation too.
BuG/Boozers have the same points, but BuG didn't even have the chance to play the 3rd game. Otherwise the K-D could be different.
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