Why battletanks needs 45 minute games.

[scron2]

Hello everybody.

I see battletanks has a very serious problem these days with games. League games, any games period. Game times and CP capture has seemingly been the most recent objective the development team has been "conquering" lately. Games need to end sooner.

I suggest that work be done to the following aspects of the game:
XP contorol -- if you join an ally in a lane, remove the incentive of that person wanting to leave. Because if you kill a hero, it should benefit your team.
XP control -- tanks should level faster and "ganking tanks" clearly needs a new formula if one doesn't exist already. Tanks should reach their peak levels way sooner.

I don't see the incentive for newer players to even want to play this game more if they can't feel that they have accomplished anything in the game. What I'm saying is that they should be able to get some good weapons and stuff within 40 minutes and be a reasonably high level of tank. Now this may open the door for completely broken games of btanks, but lately that's all we have been seeing... or I have been by watching games. I see that a game is generally over when the K:D ratio is 2:1 past 20 minutes yet we see many teams still struggling on even past 70 minutes. The worst part is if the game is evenly matched it generally runs way over 70 minutes.

A fundamentally flawed part of this game is the fact that after one team gets all CP's that they get about 3k gold every 5 minutes and the opposing team gets like 600 gold. This is what is dragging the game on. It's inevitable that the one team will eventually roll the other team but often times it takes over 30 minutes for that to happen because everyone's still "farming" or just passively farming it with the 5-minute-noob-gold. You see after 30 minutes, that is like 6 incomes of 3k or 18K which determines the game generally. The opposing team not only has to match their aggressor's kill-deaths but surpass it beyond 15 kills to even stand a remote chance. That's not going to happen LOL.

Sure there is the -giveup function but in all reality... a game that necessarily needs to use this every other game .... in league mode at some point is a huge problem. I think more XP and gold need to be injected into this game sooner. The 5 minute income should be rescaled to be more like 3 minute income. This way when a game is clearly going to end, the opposing team won't -giveup but rather just play it out because it's going to end soon anyway.

Btanks needs a much faster paced game if it is ever to attract new players. It needs to allow those new players the ability to not go pure-cookie-cutter builds and still be relatively successful. I think that buying hulls needs to be in some way factored out of the game to the point where it fits in as an "alternate strategy" and not completely necessary as they normally are. I think it is a fair assumption that most players will normally get hulls at points and it should be related to your K/D (ie) your tank level -- even if it is this way now, it isn't noticed as much as to factor out hulls (waste of slot!) -- look at batteries... there used to be mana regen and it was factored out. Weapons need to be stressed more so that newer players won't have to learn the hard way. Killing tanks and assisting in kills needs to be rewarded because when 4 tanks kill 1 tank the XP is divided among 4 players but what if they kill a titan?

I think the whole goal here is to have a "pro" type balanced game run in the timeline of 45-55 minutes. Level 20 should be achieveable in that time as should a reasonable tank like demon tank and TP and say a few lazers or supercell with a hull and speedpack or something. Right now I don't see this as feasible and that's why the game is not being played by a vast number of players. Either they are in a game and can't be successful because the level of learning is steep or they get carried/rolled hardcore. There is no fun on having someone win the game (and likely bitch you out all game) or having lost a game or want to leave because you bought weapons without a hull/tank. It isn't easy to tell a newcomer to save gold when most like spending it.... but if they don't have to wait forever through so much "dry" gameplay as farming and laning then it may seem more reasonable if they think the goal is more easily attainable.

So really who likes 1.5 hour long games?

My first suggestion is to implement a mode that says "I'm ok to play if you are new" -- an easy mode, that is faster paced.
.....or you could continue to do whatever you are doing now which has been fairly consistent expecting different results lol -> like a playerbase that is larget than say... Legion TD.

No I'm not on some sort of "HB soapbox folks"... I'm saying "you need to change some things to get a playerbase" and then after that you can't desert your playerbase by removing the mode. That's backwards and I hope you have learned that by now. If anything, attracting PLAYERS is your goal. Because if you continue as you are... which is just boring the hell out of everyone you'll eventually see me go. I know you want that but I'm telling you I won't be the only one.

[eSVau]

Average game lasts 63min with a standard deviation of 26min, based on 9559 games

63min ± 26min.

[Exodus]

Well, you should have noticed by some of the changes in the latest versions, that I'm in fact already trying to shorten games to a reasonable amount.

The problem with this is, that we want shorter games, but without sacrificing the possibility of a comeback.

At least, your approach is different this time. Just to get this straight: Do you want generally more XP in the game or more XP for each tank, when an enemy is killed by more than one player?

[torokid]

Now when u talks about xp I have a relly imporant thing to share about middle and lines, there is a lot diffrent between mid and side. often when a side player has reach lvl 10 a guy from mid are mb 6-8. the prob is the creep waves. if you would balance the mid and side that's would make the game faster and make more action in game. if u share the creep waves the save a guy from mid and sid, you will see the different because a guy from side has 1/1 and middle share 2/3 waves whois means x2 more then side but 2 more players to so a guy from mid can normal earn 77% of the wave if all 3 has the same creep as not normal happens. and the side player got 100%

[FirePhoenix]

I agree Toro...the xp for the middle and lines are rly unbalanced. If the side-player are lvl 10, the middle-players are then lvl 6-8. And for example, a HeavyTank from the side gets lvl10 and he goes to the middle, he can kill all enemies with a doublekill or maybe triplekill, if the enemies have no Airship, Heavy or something like that...only in 4v4 is the xp for the middle and side balanced...but not in 5v5...

[AGGInator]

i guess to remember why it's like this.

it's because of the higher possibility to kill or multikill enemys. the exp you'll get for this should compensate the midline exp disadvantage.

however.. it's something which isn't calculateable. if noone dies in mid it's imba.. if much die it's even like this.


in my opinion it's good balanced how it is because the average amount of games proceed the calculated way.
am i right :?: :mrgreen:

[LIoOoOoIL]

i guess to remember why it's like this.

it's because of the higher possibility to kill or multikill enemys. the exp you'll get for this should compensate the midline exp disadvantage.

however.. it's something which isn't calculateable. if noone dies in mid it's imba.. if much die it's even like this.


in my opinion it's good balanced how it is because the average amount of games proceed the calculated way.
am i right :?: :mrgreen:

even with frequently multikills, its never possible in an 5on5 that midplayers get the same lvl/exp as siders. Well lets see how it works with the assistent-system which get tested in the current Beta.

Its definitely NOT balanced atm. For intern games, we also prefer playing 4on4 instead of 5on5´s.

[Althend]

i guess to remember why it's like this.

it's because of the higher possibility to kill or multikill enemys. the exp you'll get for this should compensate the midline exp disadvantage.

however.. it's something which isn't calculateable. if noone dies in mid it's imba.. if much die it's even like this.


in my opinion it's good balanced how it is because the average amount of games proceed the calculated way.
am i right :?: :mrgreen:

even with frequently multikills, its never possible in an 5on5 that midplayers get the same lvl/exp as siders. Well lets see how it works with the assistent-system which get tested in the current Beta.

Its definitely NOT balanced atm. For intern games, we also prefer playing 4on4 instead of 5on5´s.

Really u prefer 4v4???? O_o

Concerning the xp problem, isn't it a part of the thrill to check people who get level 10 first? (especially heavy) :p

Maybe making the creep of middle providing a higher amount of xp?

[Smartie]

if pülayer lvl faster noobs get faster owned and loose fun @ bt much faster ... true true ^^

[toyboatt]

I think middle lane gets enough experience. I usually go mid. In normal games, sometimes I can get to level 10 first, and sometimes a side will get to level 10 first. If there is a feeder, then that opponent gets to level 10 first.

This last part about the feeder just gives the illusion that side lane is imba. Many pros like to take lane, so usually feeders are in lane, so in those cases lane gets level 10 first.

Original Topic: I like the beacon idea to shorten games. I think all game-shortening activities should take advantage of good teamwork. Like maybe heal rate of friendly CP depends on #of allies present - #of enemies present. Maybe give a starting tank a +/- armor auras, or + damage auras. Maybe spawn more troops from CPs; like 4 guys per spawn instead of 2. Maybe you can have revive time shorter for players that die with assists, or die with allies present. Maybe getting an assist in-game gives you 200HP heal, so players can push CPs better after big battle. It is easy to make ideas.

If the bonuses revolve around teamwork, it makes a comeback possible even with feeders on the team.

[Helge_F]

i think the problem in mid is the range in wich the xp is shared when u random a flyer u just try to stay in the mid (in the mid^^) and u profit from every creep kill, as a ground tank u are mostly on one side and have not much speed so miss much xp

perhaps u can increase the xp radius a bit ? +200/300 or so

[GEN_Schwarzkopf]

1. The outside lane needs BALANCING for XP and GOLD as compared to the middle.

How can this be done?

REDUCE NUMBER OF CREEPS ON OUTSIDE LANE to 2/3 of what it is now.

[scron2]

Average game lasts 63min with a standard deviation of 26min, based on 9559 games

63min ± 26min.

OK that standard deviation of 30% is just unacceptable. That demonstrates that most games are over in 20 minutes (ruined) while others drag on for like 2 hours. Not only do you need to shorten this 63 minute average but you need to eliminate this horrific standard deviation of 30%!!!

It is the same as saying 3 +/- 1. What is the significance or accuracy in that? It is entirely inaccurate, it can't be said to be 63 when the standard deviation is above a certain percent. I know there is a test for it but I forget what its called but in short it means your average time is bunk, useless. It means you have to go with a median time for a more accurate assessment and even then that might be just as useless of a statistic.

XP gains must be enhanced, gold must come in faster for more consistent game times to happen. Still with the new TP building it's slow. There is so much wrong with the game that it drags on forever and -giveup should be 4/5, 3/4, 2/3, 1/2 so that people don't end up wasting their time. Seriously if even 1 person types -giveup it usually means the game is over at that point.

If the kill/death ratio is 2:1 the amount of -giveups required should be 50% for the losing team! SHORTEN THE GAMES BY ANY MEANS! Increase the amount of good games and reduce the games that drag on for another 30 mins of feeding. Why would you let the winning team farm statistics that they don't deserve? Why let them stat pad over such unbalanced games?

This game requires too much of a commitment and thats why next to noone picks it. Aside from the fact that there literally are less than a dozen strategies that actually work for the game and deviating from them results in a loss.

People should choose a tank and keep it the entire game. Why? To simplify the game and to create a game that is fair and based on XP/ lane rewards rather than pure knowledge of the complicated steps to build and buy tanks. Remove buying tanks and you have a much better game. Also less work would be required to integrate new tanks into the game rather than discussing early, mid, or late gameness of the "new" tank. This way biasing the game to XP rewards rather than purchasing your way to a better tank makes the game alot more fluid and intuitive as to what there is to do next and what tanks to pick with what tanks. SO WHAT if some tanks abilities would need an overhaul! Adjust the amounts of mana for the skill or something like that.

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CONTROL POINTS SHOULD ONLY BE OVERTAKEN LOGICALLY! END THE CHARADES OF TAKING CPS OUT OF ORDER! THIS IS YET ANOTHER HUGE PROBLEM IN THIS GAME!

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hmm actually noone seriously discussed the first post at all so I guess you guys aren't serious about getting a playerbase in this game that will fill even 1 bot 24/7. It's quite pathetic. Let's call it "btow pathetic".

[Tez.Sick]

I don't like spicy stuff, so i don't eat it

I don't like tennis, so i don't watch it

You don't like bt how it is right now, so ......

[scron2]

I don't like spicy stuff, so i don't eat it

I don't like tennis, so i don't watch it

You don't like bt how it is right now, so ......

"I don't reply constructively so I'm a(n) ..."

Seriously how old are you?
Considering your title it seems like an appeal to flaming (you're trolling), which in turn is an appeal to force me out of here (you're trolling and you're an "administrator")... so I ask why did you reply like that? I think my post outlining what is wrong here outlines that pretty perfectly. Learn to discuss things like an adult then we'll talk ok?

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Wow I just saw that there are 776 views on this topic and noone has said anything really. I guess there isn't anything wrong with the game lol. Noone agrees, noone disagrees about the amounts of XP which should be greater and the gold income should also be greater to speed up the game. The best so far is "if you don't like it, stop caring" from your trolling administrator LAWL!!! Ok I'll stop caring then. It's no loss to me, just as you turned 3/4 of your playerbase away by ignoring those "HB noobs". Continue to make wise decisions administrators!

Listen to credible people like BENNIE.FM when considering to remove HB... and we all know how he acts. When people came into his clan saying play them in pro mode, it's because he's a douche in the first place... it had nothing to do with your game having a fun mode so when you listened to his petty complaints you hurt this game more than you can imagine.

Such a joke every game is like 1 hour as the statistic dictates and the only reason they last longer is because people can't use -giveup because there is always 1 guy not giving up because they want their allies to leave and be banned for it. That's game ruining: not giving up when you should.

[griffin1987]

Who defines when you "should give up"? I've had comebacks after having the main building down to 10% of it's hp, still winning the game afterwards.

And if people don't want to play anymore, they're free to leave - has nothing to do with banning anyone. No one gets banned for leaving, if they don't try to ruin the game beforehand.

Also, I dislike speeding up the game further. I've been playing bt now for nearly 5 years, and it would really suck if every game turned out to be the same because the game duration is so short that you ain't really got time for strategies or tactics. In the past - when there was still the bug bot used frequently - I've often played games of about 25 minutes. Trust me, it's not much fun if your enemies are so bad, that they loose after 25 minutes. (joining a game named "pro mode" ... )

I for one would remove the giveup option completely - giving up in bt is not like "okay, you've won. You were better this time. Thanks for the game" but most of the time it's like "my teammates are at fault for loosing you ****". Sometimes it's even people saying "I didn't really wanna play in the first place" - comon, why did you join then? And what's the problem with defending or trying to turn the game around? For me, a comeback is actually about 20 times more fun than just a straight win, and even loosing is more fun sometimes.

If 3/4 of the playerbase really ran away, because HB was removed, than I wouldn't really care, because the very same players who only liked bt for HB mode were not seldom those that constantly flamed when loosing, leaving as soon as they lost a fac, etc.

My .50 cent.

P.S.: Personally attacking someone won't get you friends, neither here nor in the real world. So I'd appreciate it if we could keep this about the game, instead of on a personal level. Thanks.

I don't like spicy stuff, so i don't eat it

I don't like tennis, so i don't watch it

You don't like bt how it is right now, so ......

"I don't reply constructively so I'm a(n) ..."

Seriously how old are you?
Considering your title it seems like an appeal to flaming (you're trolling), which in turn is an appeal to force me out of here (you're trolling and you're an "administrator")... so I ask why did you reply like that? I think my post outlining what is wrong here outlines that pretty perfectly. Learn to discuss things like an adult then we'll talk ok?

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Wow I just saw that there are 776 views on this topic and noone has said anything really. I guess there isn't anything wrong with the game lol. Noone agrees, noone disagrees about the amounts of XP which should be greater and the gold income should also be greater to speed up the game. The best so far is "if you don't like it, stop caring" from your trolling administrator LAWL!!! Ok I'll stop caring then. It's no loss to me, just as you turned 3/4 of your playerbase away by ignoring those "HB noobs". Continue to make wise decisions administrators!

Listen to credible people like BENNIE.FM when considering to remove HB... and we all know how he acts. When people came into his clan saying play them in pro mode, it's because he's a douche in the first place... it had nothing to do with your game having a fun mode so when you listened to his petty complaints you hurt this game more than you can imagine.

Such a joke every game is like 1 hour as the statistic dictates and the only reason they last longer is because people can't use -giveup because there is always 1 guy not giving up because they want their allies to leave and be banned for it. That's game ruining: not giving up when you should.

[scron2]

Comebacks from 10% building health. Sounds like a straw man argument but only for me. You lose 99,9999% of the time. Replay or it didn't happen. If you did win you would have saved it and if you didn't to back up your comment just now you're a fool.

People get banned for leaving too many games. You are not informed.

The old pro mode was the lower income than now mode that once you got a k/d ratio over the other team the game was pretty much over if you got thunder tank first. Noobs fed like crazy. It actually took less skill to win in that mode because it was more about knowledge of the build than actual skill. With minimal skill and a strong build plan you were better because most players would get weapons when they needed hulls.

People don't giveup because leaving too many games leads to a ban so keeping their allies in the game increases the odds of a leaver. Sure comebacks can happen but some situations are not like that and all I'm saying is that if 4 people giveup then that game is done. It doesn't matter what the 1 other guy thinks.

Wanting players to leave a game for unbased claims like those is never a good thing. Btanks needed and needs all the players it can get. The fact that the association here wanted players to leave (people like you) is evidence in itself. You can be the glass half full guy and say "it's good they left" but at the same time it really is bad that they left. As long as they return they get better and eventually learn but if you push them away they not only do not learn but more importantly you don't have anyone to play with anymore. That makes you an elitist... an elitist in a poorly modded game at that because HB was removed.

Attacking someone on the internet "personally" or should I call it electronically won't get me friends on the internet. The internet isn't real life. In the case of Bennie.fm if you don't know about him then I'm doing you a huge favor and you don't even realize it. Some people are clinically douchebags and can't help it and that's bennie. You've been warned. Being a troll and supporting trolling is a golden rule violation, for the few things you don't realize here. I never acted unkind to Bennie but for no reason he acts unkind to not only me but many other players as a figure of authority. That deserves some disclosure to the users here.

So sit back and think for a second. You just stood up for bennie.fm, the guy who likes to troll and admits it does no harm because personally attacking him won't get me friends. I don't need your advice ok.

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[EarthR]

scron2 whoever you are stop acting like you are the god of this game who knows everything. People leave btanks and wc3 in general that has nothing to do with a mode.

Imo getting a game ending that faster will only make the difference between pros and new players bigger.

And i am with griffin on this one 95% of the games can be won with a comeback even if you lose all cps and factories the only problem is that its impossible to make a comeback when 3-4 teamates have given up on the game already and stop playing because they think the game is lost.

[Tez.Sick]

Heeeyyy guys, stay cool

Don't care about scron2 / Gen_Schwarzkopf opinion..... he is just a noob in rage

[progg]

i think this game is just a bit difficult to gen. try some green td? ^^