Harder penalty for leavers

[RaptorXI]

Raise mininmal stay rate to 90% or increase maximal penalty points for leaving.

[BENNIE.FM]

Raise mininmal stay rate to 90% or increase maximal penalty points for leaving.

Agree

Also is someone leaving on purpose a ban reason.I think it should be.

[UnifiedDoom]

I agree with this.

Even if someone has consistent problems with lag/drop on their computer, it's up to them to fix it rather than ruin the games for everyone else.

[BENNIE.FM]

I agree with this.

Even if someone has consistent problems with lag/drop on their computer, it's up to them to fix it rather than ruin the games for everyone else.

While i agree with this, what about people who just leave when they feel like it,

[Prog]

Leaving can have so many different reasons that do not justify a ban and frequent leavers drop out of the stay percentage anyway.

[BENNIE.FM]

Ok i agree with what you say but typical leaver are ones who play the 3-4 qualify games and then play a ranked same pattern there stay rate is usually good enough,and stay percentage sucks if a game goes 1 hour 30 min close game and they leave just for no reason just cause they can't be bothered to stay usually maintain a decent enough stay % to remain in ranked, i have had 3 games out of my last with this occurring

[RaptorXI]

And still you can play ranked games while leaving often. I'm not talking about someone who gets kicked because of being afk from start or getting dropped due to a desync once or twice.


If this

We have activated the penalty requirement now! 13 Players are not qualified

We also slightly modified the penalty calculation (less penalty).

penalty = 10 8 + 40 * ( 1 - time_percentage_stayed_in_this_and_19_games_before ))

is the newest calculation of penalty points I could leave 7 of my last 20 games while keeping the 85%.

No one likes to lose but there is always a choice. I guess everyone has his own opinion about honor, class and so on. But for what reason we have to flame or kick each other or leave ship when it's sinking?

Also added a screenshot of what makes me angry: even though someone saved for a new tank 4/5 players vote to giveup. I get a temporary ban for not giving up.
English translation:

eSVau: if you won't giveup you will get banned
RaptorXI: let's hear what the other admins say about this
eSVau: no one likes you, so who cares?

And it's less the issue that things get personal, more that i believe game is nenver over.

[eSVau]

I'm thinking about

penalty = old_penalty + minimum( 10; 1.5 * old_penalty )

[BENNIE.FM]

And still you can play ranked games while leaving often. I'm not talking about someone who gets kicked because of being afk from start or getting dropped due to a desync once or twice.


If this

We have activated the penalty requirement now! 13 Players are not qualified

We also slightly modified the penalty calculation (less penalty).

penalty = 10 8 + 40 * ( 1 - time_percentage_stayed_in_this_and_19_games_before ))

is the newest calculation of penalty points I could leave 7 of my last 20 games while keeping the 85%.

No one likes to lose but there is always a choice. I guess everyone has his own opinion about honor, class and so on. But for what reason we have to flame or kick each other or leave ship when it's sinking?

Also added a screenshot of what makes me angry: even though someone saved for a new tank 4/5 players vote to giveup. I get a temporary ban for not giving up.
English translation:

eSVau: if you won't giveup you will get banned
RaptorXI: let's hear what the other admins say about this
eSVau: no one likes you, so who cares?

And it's less the issue that things get personal, more that i believe game is nenver over.

Wow thats really sad.

[griffin1987]

And still you can play ranked games while leaving often. I'm not talking about someone who gets kicked because of being afk from start or getting dropped due to a desync once or twice.


If this

We have activated the penalty requirement now! 13 Players are not qualified

We also slightly modified the penalty calculation (less penalty).

penalty = 10 8 + 40 * ( 1 - time_percentage_stayed_in_this_and_19_games_before ))

is the newest calculation of penalty points I could leave 7 of my last 20 games while keeping the 85%.

No one likes to lose but there is always a choice. I guess everyone has his own opinion about honor, class and so on. But for what reason we have to flame or kick each other or leave ship when it's sinking?

Also added a screenshot of what makes me angry: even though someone saved for a new tank 4/5 players vote to giveup. I get a temporary ban for not giving up.
English translation:

eSVau: if you won't giveup you will get banned
RaptorXI: let's hear what the other admins say about this
eSVau: no one likes you, so who cares?

And it's less the issue that things get personal, more that i believe game is nenver over.

While it's of course not the same, and I think your case is way worse actually, it's funny how it's eSVau again spontaniously banning someone ...

[gozo1985]

another demonstration of eSVau abusing his rights. A shame for the community.

[Tez.Sick]

another demonstration of eSVau abusing his rights. A shame for the community.

y this is off topic here, but this reply from gozo is off topic at every thread

eSVau did a really good job in previous years and he doesn't deserve this kind of harassment!
His effort in league and forum should be appreciate.

There are some people in the "forum-team" who put a lot of time and work into Btanks and community, also some Btanks-player really care about map, newbies, bugs.
Thx to this people for posting good replies, attachments, ..... !
Sure this is some kind of "online-work", but someone has to do it..... Btanks-player and forum-admins don't begging for attention, they just care and thats good.

Sure sometimes there are some issues with ban request, stupid comments in forum or other unclear stuff, but we try to discuss/solve it, if it worth the effort.

In eSVau's case there are some disagreement between him and some players....
(also i got some "difference" with some players )
But its our job to decide, even it seems unclear/unfair, people can post their request and explain their issues with that decision/action.

About ban request and banning people...
for example: if i commit a crime, there is a law about, i dont know, maybe 10000 pages...... its well-defined how to punish a crime.
We got "only" 1 page of rules... sure we can also write 20 pages + comments+ replays+ previous cases ........
But i bet some people will find some unclear rules to discuss about...... there are always some kind of this people who whine about everything
So we try to find the best solution , often we discuss it in teamspeak ....
If i/some other admins post an approved/disapproved ban request, its common that 2 or 3 admins decided it, but only one of us posting it.

Now about rage bans
Sure sometimes we get really pissed off about some people/behaviour and then it seems like we abuse our rights....
But mostly (some minutes after game) we calm down and talk about that guys behavior and we lift the ban....the bot only refresh every hour and so that guy cant join next game, even ban is lifted.
Of course sometimes in clear cases we dont lift the ban, i think its ridiculous if one admin post a ban request and another approve it .....

I think there must be a reason why some player get banned again and again.......
It should be a matter of course that player,who get 5 - 20 accounts banned in past, will be banned right now for misbehavior, even its the first "mistake" with that account......
+ it SHOULD be clear that we are not interested in lifting bans, if that guy flame, insult, post stupid lies, get personal .... in forum!


For all banned people/accounts: just ask friendly for an unban (no beggin!) and you will see that we will unban most of the requests!
(btw: Yesterday eSVau told me he really would like to unban good "old" player like griffin, he just have to ask in a friendly way or pm him .... easy, isn't it)

tez

[gozo1985]

i respect all of you who take time to watch banrequests and so on. and i think to be pissed sometimes is totally ok. but to ban someone becuse hes not giving up a game IS NOT EVEN AGAINST THE RULES !!! i have seen so many disapproved banrequests of unsocial behavior which were more worth a banrequest.

u know im not an asshole... not ingame and also not in this community.

i start here with to apologize for my offtopics sometimes and i will try to not do it anymore (except this one last time ). now jump on the boat show us you have nuts and do the same eSVau. everyone makes misstakes. i hope you are not a kiddy like so many on BT and you see that you did something wrong. revoke the bans you did becouse you just pissed and apologize and everything is fine.

[RaptorXI]

I'm glad that at least someone states something personal here. And thank you for speaking with me when i was in teamspeak yesterday, Tez.Sick.

Although this thread is getting more and more off-topic: I'm not interested in joining the forum team anymore.

Delete this post.

[BENNIE.FM]

Now about rage bans
Sure sometimes we get really pissed off about some people/behaviour and then it seems like we abuse our rights....
But mostly (some minutes after game) we calm down and talk about that guys behavior and we lift the ban....the bot only refresh every hour and so that guy cant join next game, even ban is lifted.
Of course sometimes in clear cases we dont lift the ban, i think its ridiculous if one admin post a ban request and another approve it .....

I don't even mind that you approve your own bans while being objective at the same times.I think most of these guys would like it see be posted with a reason.Currently not having a request in forum create confusion they think its hate such and it was personal ban or what's wrong why can't i enter games its going to anger players.So in my opinion rage ban or not you should at least post the player is banned.I don't think its that hard to do,besides the benefits better then all this hate and confusion that creates problems.

For all banned people/accounts: just ask friendly for an unban (no beggin!) and you will see that we will unban most of the requests!
(btw: Yesterday eSVau told me he really would like to unban good "old" player like griffin, he just have to ask in a friendly way or pm him .... easy, isn't it)

About this process didn't griffin asked to be unbanned multiple times he shouldn't have to come make a personal please unban me if he has to be banned for the standard amount of time,and lets not be silly i am not sure if he should of been banned in the first place.I doubt Griffin has a bad record with bans.The other guys making post like this don't have bad records either,most and make valid contributions to the forum.

Also even though i understand even you guys find it hard to keep calm in games it must be hard.I think that sometimes i see have remarks in game that aren't friendly like "You will be banned for the player playing a certain way, or raptors example of not giving up being a reason to ban clearly esvau was in the wrong.You guys should keep some time of standard as admins when playing games because behaviour from you guys is noticed i think there is a sense of you can get away with alot more.I understand that it can be hard when raged.

Don't get me wrong i get along with esvau fine but the admin team should take some of the feedback on board.You guys ensure we have a league to play in and approving bans i am grateful for all the work and im not sure but im assuming a few of you put money towards keeping the server on.

So thanks
BENNIE meow

---

No one likes to lose but there is always a choice. I guess everyone has his own opinion about honor, class and so on. But for what reason we have to flame or kick each other or leave ship when it's sinking?

Also added a screenshot of what makes me angry: even though someone saved for a new tank 4/5 players vote to giveup. I get a temporary ban for not giving up.
English translation:

eSVau: if you won't giveup you will get banned
RaptorXI: let's hear what the other admins say about this
eSVau: no one likes you, so who cares?

And it's less the issue that things get personal, more that i believe game is never over.

This is what i was referring to if you confused by all means im not favouring anyone im just stating its obvious there are issues and there some resolutions to them.I think ensuring a player can visibly see a ban request on forum it would help so much please maybe make a change.

[BENNIE.FM]

One last thing rage is common between all of us well most of us,if i was to act out in rage and flame or do something i would be banned so lets keep all keep it to one standard and we might have more friendly threads as opposed to having something about admin rage etc one standard for all.

Regards Bennie <3

[griffin1987]

@Bennie:

Thx for saying your mind, not everyone does unfortunately. Thx. And no, I don't think I ever requested to be unbanned, but I apologized for the one I kicked in that game and posted that I now think it wasn't the right thing to do. But while I'm happy about the statement which supposedly came from eSVau, I won't ask for an unban, as I still think it wasn't okay to just insta-ban without posting it.

And I totally agree that the only problem with the whole thing in practice is missing a post in the ban-request thread. Most probably all (or mostly all) would be fine if they just made a post there (in theory it would be better if someone else decided the ban then, but in practice I think it doesn't really matter). So I'm with you on that as well.

---

Back on Topic:

I would even agree with a required stay percentage of 98%, I don'T think I ever went below that (maybe once or twice in 5 years because of network problems, but having to play some qualify games in that case wouldn't have hurt, really).

I mean, 85% means if a game takes 1h 40mins (= 100 mins) that someone can leave at 1:25 every time and be fine. Doesn't sound bad? Well, the same person can also stay till the end in 2 of 3 games and then leave at 55mins and still play ranked.

I would even go farther than raptor, not in regards to the percentage, but also add the same to the qualify bot. It might not help much, as people could just create new accounts, but making it even a bit more work to do that is already a win for the community. So, for example, as soon as one hase more than 5 games on the bot, you could start counting stay percentage (as they may leave very early in their first games, because they are confused or whatever), and then require 89% stay percentage for the last 10 games. That way they could still have a network problem or something like that every 10th game and continue playing. (90% would be a problem, as I think you nearly never get 100% stay even if you stay till the end)

[GodStrongArms]

A rageban is equivalent to autodefense.
And because it's an admin privilege, it becomes "self-justice".
And thus, it denies the right to a due process for the "offending player".
Therefore, it creates iniquities between players and admins, who are not subject to the same due process than others.
The law is meant to be the same for everyone, judges are just citizen amongst others, and their first duty as judges are still to respect rules they are meant to enforce.
if judges are allowed to ignore the very rules that ground their rulings, procedural rules included, then the league rules should be completed with a prime rule stating that "As admins, we ultimately do as we please, and are not strictly tied with the following rules, which apply mainly to non admin players".
It would avoid this kind of conversations and lift quite a burden from admin shoulders. And maybe make some people unhappy. But who cares ? Do we ?

And to come back to the original topic, the question is : Do we want more games overall, or less games, but with higher quality standards ? If quality primes over quantity, let's rise to 90% (who cares about penalty anyway, the point is to be able to enter or not imnsho), otherwise let's stick to 85%, which is higher already than in the past.

[RaptorXI]

Or just one bot and everyone who joins plays league...

[griffin1987]

Or just one bot and everyone who joins plays league...

I would also be very okay with that.

For the past months there has been no real difference between qualify and ranked to me, except for the frequency of the games. Ranked players flame, giveup very early, fuck up their team, leave without reason, etc. the same as qualify players nowadays.