Distributor Overpowered

[griffin1987]

I think the distributor assist skill and the ultimate should be rebalanced.

The assist skill (Tankers little helper) is overpowered - compared with the hunter, which is about 4.5 times the price of the distributor, it makes much more money, especially since you also get money for conquering, buying stuff etc. At the highest level, the distributor gets 300 gold per support point, while the hunter only gets an additional 20% of the bounty, and only if he makes the kill - and for 20% to be 300 the other tank would have to have a bounty of 1500. I think you should reduce the money you get per level to about half.

Also, the ultimate is overpowered - if you cast it at the enemy team, you can make everything do 266% damage - for AOE spells even more, up to a potentially about 1300%, that's 13 times the original damage! While I think the Idea behind it was a good one, I don't think there's an easy way to balance it. Maybe limit it to 1 hit and 5 hits at level 5, so +1 hit per level, and only make the hits count you do on the cast target.

The armor also becomes pretty strong later on, as it doesn't seem to have a limit on the damage it heals, and has a very low cooldown - I've seen heals of several k dmg, for example when being hit with a goblin hammer or any other higher level tank skill. A fix would be to limit the amount healed, and additionally make it heal over time instead of instant (like the repair packs)

For all those changes I would compensate by reducing the cast time of the heat seeking missile, so it's easier to spam it in dogfights.

[gozo1985]

agree with the OP skills
watch the attached video (i played as "phaydver")... after an average unspectacular start the tank is getting too strong imho later on.

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at exaclty 52:30 you see the tons of % damage from the distributor ulti

[stibi-]

well the distri itself can't do much on his own - he really needs a team
(it still is a gold collecting machine - i've gatherd ~ 28k in my inventory and 20k in gold by minute 50)

[Prog]

I'd give it more time. One month ago Tanker's little helper was said to be totally useless and suddenly it is supposed to be overpowered. Perspectives on balance change so fast and overreacting is too easy.

[griffin1987]

I'd give it more time. One month ago Tanker's little helper was said to be totally useless and suddenly it is supposed to be overpowered. Perspectives on balance change so fast and overreacting is too easy.

Give it a month and you can be sure the thread is in the back of the forum far enough that no one will be reading it anymore. And I think Tanker's little helper still IS useless depending on the situation, but that's not major enough to make it way stronger than a similar skill of a tank which costs about 4.5 times as much (hunter). On the other hand, if you gave the hunter the same kind of money for the bounty hunting skill - or actually more, as it only gets money for kills, which is about 1/6th of the time a distributor can get money (1/4th because there's 4 times more chance of an assist with 5 players, + a bit because dist. also gets money for conquering, buying support items etc). So, that would mean +1800 gold per kill on highest level - and even if we say that statistically you would only have half the chance of getting an assist because you don't always have all your team mates around (but that's something you can control), we'd still be at a factor of about 3, which would mean +900 gold at the highest level - would you find that overpowered? I would.

While the last post about being useless was more or less about "why I think this skill won't be usefull", the current one is based on simple math/statistics.

Btw. what's your oppinion on the other skills?

Thanks,

Best Regards

[eSVau]

The maximum dmg a single tank receives is 100% + 4 * 33%, that's 2.32 times of the damage provided all five tanks are linked and all five tanks get hit by some other tanks dmg. Only a single instance will get distributed.

And there is the crux: distributor does not has any skills to do dmg on its own (i wouldn't consider heat seeking missile a real threat. And even considering its dmg, it is unlikely to hit all five tanks with a single missile, i actually doubt it is even possible to hit five tanks with such a tiny AoE).
Also there is a limited time frame to act for your team mates, and most mates are to stupid to do so.

About tankers little helper, i do not get your math. A maximum of 300 gold per support point, that's it.

Two points for capturing a CP, one point for assisting, half a point for consumables. A kind of discount for buying support stuff, 150 gold for breaker instead of 300 gold, 1200 gold for armor ups instead of 1500 gold. But without spending gold Distributor does not get gold besides assisting or rarely capturing CP. And both actions are just some additional gold since EVERY tank gets gold for doing so.

Distributor is NOT comparable to Hunter.

Due the lack of burst dmg a team of five Distributors would unlikely win a game, so i far away from calling it overpowered.

[UnifiedDoom]

Due the lack of burst dmg a team of five Distributors would unlikely win a game, so i far away from calling it overpowered.

While I agree with most of what you said, this is a pretty silly argument, due to the nature of counterplay in this game, 5 of ANYTHING (except titan) would be very unlikely to win a game.

[BENNIE.FM]

In my view you guys have sorted out early game play ,even though this a great support tank,its quite good on the lane i have found as to the previous version,even though you rely mainly to take advantage of your enemies mistakes.Example is having shield and three heating seeking missiles and an enemy is unaware of this and they try attack.

As for the overpowered abit while i don't think its OP, i still think there should be a small nerf to the ulti,Nothing huge some 1-2 % and it will be perfect.

All round the map is well pretty well balanced im starting to see some goblin and demons more often now and even thunder and frost as opposed to your typical heavy and airship and storm tank.I don't see guard or architect used much.You always get your ghost once in awhile.

[Prog]

In my view you guys have sorted out early game play ,even though this a great support tank,its quite good on the lane i have found as to the previous version,even though you rely mainly to take advantage of your enemies mistakes.Example is having shield and three heating seeking missiles and an enemy is unaware of this and they try attack.

As for the overpowered abit while i don't think its OP, i still think there should be a small nerf to the ulti,Nothing huge some 1-2 % and it will be perfect.

All round the map is well pretty well balanced im starting to see some goblin and demons more often now and even thunder and frost as opposed to your typical heavy and airship and storm tank.I don't see guard or architect used much.You always get your ghost once in awhile.

Pacifista was nerfed to the ground in 8.78 unfortunetly and Architect was already weak. No reason to play it anymore. :/

I still think Guard is ok and I really like the aoe initiation potential. Very team dependent though, you can't make anything happen alone with a Guard.

[griffin1987]

The maximum dmg a single tank receives is 100% + 4 * 33%, that's 2.32 times of the damage provided all five tanks are linked and all five tanks get hit by some other tanks dmg. Only a single instance will get distributed.

What about 5 tanks getting hit by an aoe like orbital? Also, 2.32 times the damage - provided all 5 tanks are linked and AT LEAST 1 tank gets hit - is more than any other skill in the game.

And there is the crux: distributor does not has any skills to do dmg on its own (i wouldn't consider heat seeking missile a real threat. And even considering its dmg, it is unlikely to hit all five tanks with a single missile, i actually doubt it is even possible to hit five tanks with such a tiny AoE).
Also there is a limited time frame to act for your team mates, and most mates are to stupid to do so.

Weapons work as well, and you don'T need brain to hit someone with your weapon, because they auto-fire. Also, you're not limited to inbuilt skills - orbital for example has a larger aoe radius.

About tankers little helper, i do not get your math. A maximum of 300 gold per support point, that's it.

Hunter, which is more than 4.5 times the cost of distributor, would have 300 per kill for an enemy bounty of 1500 (20% added bounty max). And that's only for kills, which is - if kills are equally distributed - 1/5th of the team kills. For Distributor it's 4/5th of the team kills, and if you subtract half of it, because statistically the you have half the team get assists in mean, you're still at 2/5th which is double of what hunter would get at 1500 enemy bounty. And then distributor also gets money for conquering, and buying stuff (like tp breaker).

Two points for capturing a CP, one point for assisting, half a point for consumables. A kind of discount for buying support stuff, 150 gold for breaker instead of 300 gold, 1200 gold for armor ups instead of 1500 gold. But without spending gold Distributor does not get gold besides assisting or rarely capturing CP. And both actions are just some additional gold since EVERY tank gets gold for doing so.

It's not "just additional gold" - at 300 per assist, for even 34 assists (which is not much) you have another 10k, then add money for consumables and other stuff which gives assists, which you would buy either way (cost reduction is also additional money effectively), and additional gold for conquering, and you easily have 15k more with a game time of about 40-50 minutes.

Distributor is NOT comparable to Hunter.

Yes, because it get's more money and can potentially do more damage and costs less . ...

Due the lack of burst dmg a team of five Distributors would unlikely win a game, so i far away from calling it overpowered.

And a team of 5 tinkers wouldn't either, so ? Same for nearly every other tank.

[Prog]

Please would you stop comparing spells on a 1 to 1 basis. That is not how tank balance works. Tanks come with a whole bunch of different spells with synergy and they also come with their own powercurves. The way an early hunter can influence games based on his burst damage and crowd control is something that a tank like the distributor cannot at all.

[BENNIE.FM]

Ok my view is that distributor brings a nice change to the game,and my view is that the support and ulti should be nerfed by 2-4% but thats it.

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Pacifista was nerfed to the ground in 8.78 unfortunetly and Architect was already weak. No reason to play it anymore. :/

I still think Guard is ok and I really like the aoe initiation potential. Very team dependent though, you can't make anything happen alone with a Guard.
[/quote]

I really would like some stats on which tanks are used and for how long and which tier tanks are they switching to after.

Yea guard is reliant on other team mates.Though its got great potential for aoe healing and ulti etc.

I don't actually see sky tank used much now either.

Any thoughts of posting a suggestion for architect and death tank has gone missing as well.

[griffin1987]

Please would you stop comparing spells on a 1 to 1 basis. That is not how tank balance works. Tanks come with a whole bunch of different spells with synergy and they also come with their own powercurves. The way an early hunter can influence games based on his burst damage and crowd control is something that a tank like the distributor cannot at all.

Well then let's compare the whole tanks:

Hunter got hero cannon vs normal cannon on distributor - nothing to say there, as hunter loses creeping opportunity in exchange for more specialization. All fine by me.

Hunter got main cannon vs missiles on distributor - 1:0 for hunter, but that's to be expected at 5 times the cost. And without the ability to spam the missiles the distributor skill might still be a little underpowered imho, but I already said that, and you're free to not skill it after all.

Hunter got bounty skill vs support point skill on distributor - point goes to distributor, as - if you followed the math - it makes more than double the money over game time. 1:1

Hunter got gravity bomb vs link on distributor - distributor skill clearly makes more damage as soon as you have more than one target, and as you talked about crowd control, that's also how I think we should look at it. 2:1 for distributor

Hunter got acid cloud vs heal skill on distributor - while the skills are totally different, let's try to compare them somehow. So in 1vs1 heal skill wins, as it can easily eat up 2 enemy skills and heal 5k or more (think gobo hammer + ulti for what I've seen most used), while cloud is not very useful vs 1 enemy. >= 2 vs 1 distributor still has good cards, as most people will try to not stay to close to each other vs hunter, but will still do sometimes, and also cloud doesn't do that much damage unless the enemy has a lot of hp (at which point the link skill of distributor still does more damage). A draw, I'd say.

So we have 2:1 for distributor, or 2:2 if you give the acid cloud to hunter - and that, comparing a tank to one which costs 5 times as much, or 7250 more gold. Now if you do the same comparison with hunter vs any other tank in the 2k range, you will see that they easily lose out, which is how it should be IMHO.

Oh and, what I forgot: Distributor can kill titans witht their ulti on thanks to the link skill (linked targets still get damaged even if they have titan ulti cast on them - main target doesn't though I think). Don't know if you should count it as a bug, but that's what happened in my last game anyway.

I can start uploading replays if you want, but that will probably take months, as it's pretty hard to get past the 30 minutes mark nowadays with people giving up as soon as they lose a single cp.

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P.S.: I can also compare distributor to another tank if you prefer, but I think that hunter matches up pretty well with his skills

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Pacifista was nerfed to the ground in 8.78 unfortunetly and Architect was already weak. No reason to play it anymore. :/

Architect is still pretty okay IMHO, it's just totally different to play. If you play Architect with a porter, or without mass hp and weps on pacifista, you're probably doing it wrong. I see most people sending their pacifista in just to self destruct, which is missing the point when it has up to 6 additional inventory slots, which you don't get with any other tank. The nerf actually made it way more balanced, and while it's still the tank with the most possible HP (think of putting a couple gold hulls into architect and using the pacifista as your primary damage dealer, as you can hit respawn to instantly heal it back to full hp, and with troop upgrades it still gets a lot hp by itself) and damage (more inv slots with pacifista, even if you put 4 gold hulls into architect and speed on both - you still have 6 free slots then). You can also do pacifista with explosives, as it has a percentage chance to stun on hit (which makes the target unable to run away) - in that case it could explode 2 times. Do that at a cp and either wathc people dying or you conquering the point by building a tower or barricade with pacifista (which would survive the explosions). Or using a bomb. Or smoke. Or ... there's a lot of possibilities actually, they're just all way harder to play than your normal airshit

[Prog]

You still do the same mistake of comparing spells on a 1 to 1 basis...

The whole isn't just the sum of the parts.

[BENNIE.FM]

Architect is still pretty okay IMHO, it's just totally different to play. If you play Architect with a porter, or without mass hp and weps on pacifista, you're probably doing it wrong. I see most people sending their pacifista in just to self destruct, which is missing the point when it has up to 6 additional inventory slots, which you don't get with any other tank. The nerf actually made it way more balanced, and while it's still the tank with the most possible HP (think of putting a couple gold hulls into architect and using the pacifista as your primary damage dealer, as you can hit respawn to instantly heal it back to full hp, and with troop upgrades it still gets a lot hp by itself) and damage (more inv slots with pacifista, even if you put 4 gold hulls into architect and speed on both - you still have 6 free slots then). You can also do pacifista with explosives, as it has a percentage chance to stun on hit (which makes the target unable to run away) - in that case it could explode 2 times. Do that at a cp and either wathc people dying or you conquering the point by building a tower or barricade with pacifista (which would survive the explosions). Or using a bomb. Or smoke. Or ... there's a lot of possibilities actually, they're just all way harder to play than your normal airshit
[/quote]

Are you trying to be a dickhead or something?I can claim any tank is shit if you don't know how to use it.If your referring to me using airship there is no rule to say what tank you play.I play to win i use the tank much differently to what most would think i think that's why i have 2-3 accounts over 1650 elo.If you haven't realised my average ms is 200 in game i cant even use tp gobo or demon spells cause of my lag i have to play a simple style.

Getting back on topic have to agree with prog on this one.

[stibi-]

distry is my new favourite mid tank

[Flygplan]

I cannot think about even a single game that I tougth the disruptor was op.
Like all tanks how strong it is depends on the situation.
If enemies use slow shooting hugh damage per hit weapons then the shield ability is very strong but not if they use fast shooting low damage per hit weapon.
Missiles are great vs enemies that rush forwards but othervise they end as as a farming tool.
Tankers little helper is maybe the most intresting ability the problem is however it don,t help you directly so taking this tank in the hope of getting more money may end with less kills more deaths and in the end lossing the game.
How much money you get on the skill can allways be lost in the quantity of kills.
Its however very good vs exploders I don't need to tell why.
The ulti is very strong if you can get alot of the enemies under it and at the same time attack them but if you only can get like 2 tanks under it its not very strong so to get most use of it try to lunch a full team attack on their cp.
Now I have made my own conclusion of its abilities and I don't see anything that sounds op but this tank will absolut be strong given the right situation but it can be a liability to.

Trying to compare one of its abilities to one of the hunters is no proof its op escpeciall one the ground that these abilities may be very weak in many chases.

[Flygplan]

Here is 2 games in which I use the disruptor for a most of the games.

[griffin1987]

Are you trying to be a dickhead or something?I can claim any tank is shit if you don't know how to use it.If your referring to me using airship there is no rule to say what tank you play.I play to win i use the tank much differently to what most would think i think that's why i have 2-3 accounts over 1650 elo.If you haven't realised my average ms is 200 in game i cant even use tp gobo or demon spells cause of my lag i have to play a simple style.

Sorry, I don't really get why you felt offended there and the need to insult me, when I did nothing alike? Maybe you misunderstood something because there is no difference in english between "you" refering to the person one is talking to, and "you" refering to the average joe(e.g. in this case the common player). And the "airshit" nickname comes from the way an airship is a solo tank much more than any other tank in the game - I'm not the only one using it (and didn't come up with the name, but I can't remember where I read it first unfortunately as it's been around for quite some time now)

[BENNIE.FM]

You didn't take my comment the right way either airship is a good tank is used well if you know how to use well it can benefit the whole team to use it correctly and effective probably takes a lot more skill to be advantageous for your team. "airship it self is true but the same goes for any tank if not used correctly any person last hitting with a nuke a person who ultis for creep heavy someone who misses with hunter orb any tank can be terrible and just as bad for a team if not used well.In reality of the game you already know a airship can't stun you don't wait or rely on it sucks when you any tank with stun or a more gank or team spell that doesn't use it at all or well and you die since they don't stun or whatever spell is needed in that circumstance.

As for the distributor i think the spells are generally well balanced but a small nerf nothing drastic only the smallest of change to reflect the tanks cost.

In my view support needs 4% nerf and ulti 2% but that's it the armour skill is quite powerful if used correctly especially vs nukes but i find it can be easily countered so 2sec extra cd that's all i would say overall i think the op of this tank is overstated in this discussion.