Feedback 8.4x

[Exodus]

You can post your general opinion on the newest version here. Don't post bugs here, there is an own forum for that sort of things.

When you are interested in a special topic (like trader, mines etc.) then post in another thread for that.

[TKF]

Well, there is in general a lot of changes in 8.42.


When you got the defuse pack, you really can't see the cooldown on that item. Also I played a game against a tinker with 2 mines, and it was to catch up defusing when 2 mines has 50 sec cooldown and defuser have 25 seconds cooldown. I would have preffered if it has some less cooldown.

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Well, the change weapon delay reduced from 5 to 3 sec was a suprise. This might make special weapons more attractive.

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About the Troop Command Center, well I haven't seen it in action public b.net gameplay yet. No comments there.

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About the sky tanks flame strike strength, it's quite destructive sometimes. When using it against enemy cp, the enemy ground tanks don't have much of an option, but often dying. I prefer Flame strike rather than thunder quake. Also I now prioritize flame strike ahead of speed skill. I think it's a bit imba for the sky tank IMO.

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About the automatic afk system after 5 min, is really nice.

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I'm a player that usually like the shorter games. Now, there is only -wc mode option, which isn't that attractive. Some players greatly dislikes low creep health. So an alternative mode or feature to make the game time shorter when hosting would be nice.

[Gammagulp]

@Skytank

I only think the flame strike is ok, cause the demon tank for 10k gold has good abilities to and can stun 3 seconds. the flame strike even dont help against air and only is good if you manage to get the enemy back to its CP.
You need to stand still to use Flame or Ground slam, which is annoying, even when fighting a light tank with rocket. Pls dont say imba without comparing abilities with a tank, who costs nearly the same money and the ranged usefullness of an ability, which you only can use good at CP´s.
If I use Flame strike against good players i think they at maximum stay 1 - 2 seconds in the flames, cause you can see them before completely castet. The Demon Tank cam use Banish, Stun and Ulti that hard, while Sky Tank long time even dont have a good Chance in the field, only speed, which the helicopter has too, was a good ability of the Sky tank before. And The more HP than the Air Ship or so, only exists due to the costs of the sky tank.

I supposed it needed an upgrade ^^

[Prog]

Normally in mid it just goes flamestrike + stun (from another player), so even good players stay at least 3-4 seconds in the flames; No need to change it.

[horselance]

Flamestrike was too weak in older versions. But now it does, what it writes. I think it is ok. Most of time you cant catch anyone in your flames. Area is small. So you can use it only when you rush to a ground tank in CP or to damage tinker/force towers.

[RedNova]

The creep command center is a neat addition, but it's cost is so high (or exclusive) that me and my friends were only able to use in games were we destroyed the other team, hence with no way to really test it under fire. But for the few times we used it the additional creeps offered little in term of usefulness. Then again, like I said, this was against a sieged base so the impact could have been minimal.

However, if I could make one comment, I would prefer it to spawn special creeps automatically, like an auto-cast summon. That way a player would not have to be near it to be useful. And make it cheaper. At 90 wood, the game is usually won for the team who has the trader (not always, but very often). Besides, you have to upgrade it afterwards anyway.

[Vomitus]

At 90 wood, the game is usually won for the team who has the trader (not always, but very often).

Btw, doesn't it sound a bit weird? If trader have 100 wood -> you win. It sounds alot stupid but it is true.
Just an observation.

[DerSatan]

If trader has 100 wood -> you win.

hmmm... cant really find the truth in this statement.


do you think having the troop command center means an autowin?

i really doubt that.


or did you mean that a trader who traded that much supported the team that greatly that it cant lose?

hmm.. if the trader hasnt been killed some times, it may be true.
but if the opponents hunted him greatly, he could reach 100 wood after two hours (if he had not lost the game some time ago).

[Vomitus]

Yeah, I should have to add that 100 wood means victory only if trader gets it uninterruptible:).
Let us say, if Trader is able to effort Orbital Control on 20th minute or Orbital Control + Troop Command on 25th minute - this is excellent work for him and this means victory:).

Btw, I think that the whole idea to buy something for trader items is crap:). Because in this case Trader loses his main purpose - feed the team.

[Gammagulp]

I played a game, where the enemy trades, and i got demon after 22 min oO.
So troop command and Orbital is somehow useless then ^^. I One shotet him sometimes with teleport - stun combination over 5000 Distance .

The trader build up 3 Factories after that 22 min. Some teammates cry "we will looose, we will loose" and so on, while I said keep cool and earn money. This ended up having some lasers and creeping alle the 3 factories very long, cause i got so overpowered by the extra creeps (even the trader leveled armor till 15 later to 30). The money he got through trading and troops, BUT !!! his mates get nearly nothing in the mid - and when trying to take cp u could kill them easy overpwoered.

He build up some command center, but even with armor level 30 this was not enough and lost. First the factories where killed and later on he left. That means till i got lvl 13 for One shot kill with demon he was freely trading, cause my team wasnt able to hunt :x . And he must have felt, that not everyone is a noob, who can be killed by trading :wink:.

[Vomitus]

I One shotet him sometimes with teleport - stun combination over 5000 Distance .

It is actually 5500 distance:)

And he must have felt, that not everyone is a noob, who can be killed by trading :wink:.

Well, I think that those trader was a bit noob:) All he needed to to is to cast constantly Shell(I've forgotten the name) that absorbs damage. And there is no any other skill able to kill Trader with one shot. And after Trader's 17th level he even doesn't need that Shell. Because he will have 1755hp that is 5hp greater than lvl5 Lava Shot. As you know, Trader has alot of money that is not crucial to store for something BIG. He can invest some in Update(buy xp) and that solves many Trader's problems(the only way to raise hp, increase in skills that are like life essence for Trader).

Some words about "teleport - stun combination".
Excluding that case when whole enemy team hunts Trader(I think it is only possible when there only one player - Trader left in Team:))), all the time Trader is very relaxed so he has alot of time to observe the map and to be aware of YOU who are able to hunt him. So, when your missile is in the air and distance is about 1500-2000, it is possible(and it's quite easy) to cast in time Shadowalk or Invulnerability, so your missile will hit the air not the Trader. And if Trader's reaction sucks:) he can just runaway with Teleport/Shadowalk.
So, Trader has 4 options to counter your Tactic(see below).

I think, the only real problem to Trader is Mines, because I haven't found good counter to them yet:) (I don't count defuser or essential UltPack + Invulnerability to defuse but may be this is best solution.)

Btw, you got Demon in 22 minutes? Well... if it was NOT a Scout then I suppose your enemy team was quite noob too:)
As for your Tactic: your enemies were totally noob:) Because teleporting into Trader's lane when whole map is hold by enemy and staying alive - this looks more like a tale or a counter-noob game:)

When I say about 100 wood and uninterruptible trading I mean that both teams has good players - in this case Trader WILL be interrupted and not only one time. So, we can come to conclusion that this situation with 100 wood uninterruptedly could only happen when Trader's team(including Trader) is more experienced than other one.
:)

[NoobStrike]

I'd like to see 1 test being done honestly. I'd like you to set a requirement for all tanks beyond the demolisher. (maybe beyond shredder too...). Like having thunder and ghost tank being level 4 tanks, airship guard heavy tank being level 5... and so on.

Also, put requirements on the weapons... Sure it will cut some strategies... but what ever... The game right now is too much of a save to fat tank to a decent weapon game... You CANNOT guess like I'll go double weapon to hull for better farming... you will just get run over by heavy tanks with a fireball on your 2fireball steel hull heavy tank...

I dunno, that s just me, I'd like to test it out, see the outcome. Am not saying it is a true solution to the lack of depth in the pros games... just 1 avenue I'd like to explore.

[Vomitus]

Btw, Exo, you could make additional modes for testing purposes. As for example make 'reqs' test mod when all tanks will have a requirement beginning right after Shredder. So this will be not turned on by default and will not make map confusing in it's normal state but in other way you'll grant a possibility to test some new 'obscured' ideas to determine their real viability.

I hope you got the idea.

[TKF]

btw I'm wondering if it's possible to bring back the old sell and buy system? It can coexist with the current junkyard system, but it will also reallow selling items which is worth less than 1000 gold.

However if it's because of the hint button, pro players can type a command to get the buy icon instead and buy items.

[Morkardar]

I would like to see -giveup command as text-command (like kick player), too.

[horselance]

And also there can be a signal sound for both. Or you might not see it.

[TKF]

I would like to see -giveup command as text-command (like kick player), too.

I played some BT games, and I've never seen kick command being effective. Yes and no windows are quite simple, but asking players to write -yes or -no, will never make it happen. Players are lazy and doesn't bother to write "-yes". Not in a single game this new kick system has been confirmed it's working. Is it just me, or doesn't the kick system work? (Maybe it's just me)

[Exodus]

Yes, it is working (I've already seen a successfull kick). But you are right, people are lazy and most of the time they don't bother to type a short command to kick somebody.
This would be even more critical with the giveup command, since everyone has to vote yes. But at least you can see who's voting for or against it, or who's not voting at all.

[Gammagulp]

i have seen it just some times, and it worked

the most guys voted -no or -yes, but it was extreme, when someone of the enemy team tried to kick one every minute, who was not that bad

[horselance]

I used to hate kick dialog. It can happen in a combat and you dont have time to read who do you click for yes or no so i always used to click no and sometimes you miscilick.
New kick is better.