2010-08-05, 21:05:47
I have suggested several times to make multiple levels of league bots based on players rank, but I don't see discussion going to this direction (which I don't know why). I think this is a good idea, and an easier solution instead of discussing -kick.
There are 4 types of players can ruin a game:
1. AFK (or afkai, or leaver, or dc)
2. Flamer (who insult other people)
3. Anti-game behavior (feed on purpose, block teammates/creeps, bomb own tower/base etc.)
4. Noob
Actually all 4 cases are not easy to be detected by machine, or to speak, not easy to set rules for trigger a kick. You cannot say 0/10 is not feed on purpose and 0/20 is feed on purpose. Only case 1 is easier to detect, but if someone is just sitting in the base and click mouse once a while, it is still an afk, but cannot be detected.
Then people saying to give the majority "-kick" command back, so the players can take immediate action to stop the game being ruined. Indeed, with -kick it is better to deal with case 1~3. Many people think case 4 should be also kicked, which i disagree (although i dislike noob player).
But -kick has obvious side effects too. It can be easily abused. For example many people have been through games they need to type "-no" every minute to stop 2 people fighting each other. Also, maybe beginner players (sometimes even good players) are kicked, just because they die at the beginning or other stupid reasons.
So now we are in a situation that we want to have -kick, but we don't want to -kick too much. It results in a disscusion that how to we set the -kick threshold. This is not easy, appearently.
To jump out of the discussion of having or not having -kick, i suggest to make multiple level of league bot. For example,
1. Quality bot (everyone can join, like it is now).
2. League normal bot (10+ games, 80%+ stay, like it is now).
3. League advanced bot (50+ games, 90% stay, and points bigger than 15xx)
The points limit is refreshed regulaly to make sure there are always like 3000 players are qualified to enter. (this is easy to check, because you can just check the point of the 3000th player in the database). We can even make a league bot pro, where only 2000 or 1000 players can join.
Normally only good players can enter high level bot, for the players who ruined a game (which also lose points), they lose points and cannot enter the high level bot. So with higher level bot, it stops the game being ruined even before the game starts.
Someone may say, if we set limit only to top 3000 player, the bot is filled slow, I don't want to wait etc. But consider a ruined game normally cost you at least half a hour (and then you get angry and keep playing another one), why don't you spend more time to wait for a good game? And eventually, if more and more people plays seriously, it is not necessarily the high level bot will filled slow, because everyone knows that's the place to have a good game.
With the multiple level bot, there is something else we can do, instead of just ban forever, we can reset (decrease) the points to lower down a player, so that they cannot ruined a game in the higher level bots.
In fact the game is only ruined by bad players, like the 4 cases I listed above. If there is a way we can tell who is good or bad (isn't it the reason we make rank?), why don't we use it to help making better games?
But ofc, this assumes the ranking system working well, which is another topic I would like to discuss later (I think the point difference should be bigger than now within the team).
There are 4 types of players can ruin a game:
1. AFK (or afkai, or leaver, or dc)
2. Flamer (who insult other people)
3. Anti-game behavior (feed on purpose, block teammates/creeps, bomb own tower/base etc.)
4. Noob
Actually all 4 cases are not easy to be detected by machine, or to speak, not easy to set rules for trigger a kick. You cannot say 0/10 is not feed on purpose and 0/20 is feed on purpose. Only case 1 is easier to detect, but if someone is just sitting in the base and click mouse once a while, it is still an afk, but cannot be detected.
Then people saying to give the majority "-kick" command back, so the players can take immediate action to stop the game being ruined. Indeed, with -kick it is better to deal with case 1~3. Many people think case 4 should be also kicked, which i disagree (although i dislike noob player).
But -kick has obvious side effects too. It can be easily abused. For example many people have been through games they need to type "-no" every minute to stop 2 people fighting each other. Also, maybe beginner players (sometimes even good players) are kicked, just because they die at the beginning or other stupid reasons.
So now we are in a situation that we want to have -kick, but we don't want to -kick too much. It results in a disscusion that how to we set the -kick threshold. This is not easy, appearently.
To jump out of the discussion of having or not having -kick, i suggest to make multiple level of league bot. For example,
1. Quality bot (everyone can join, like it is now).
2. League normal bot (10+ games, 80%+ stay, like it is now).
3. League advanced bot (50+ games, 90% stay, and points bigger than 15xx)
The points limit is refreshed regulaly to make sure there are always like 3000 players are qualified to enter. (this is easy to check, because you can just check the point of the 3000th player in the database). We can even make a league bot pro, where only 2000 or 1000 players can join.
Normally only good players can enter high level bot, for the players who ruined a game (which also lose points), they lose points and cannot enter the high level bot. So with higher level bot, it stops the game being ruined even before the game starts.
Someone may say, if we set limit only to top 3000 player, the bot is filled slow, I don't want to wait etc. But consider a ruined game normally cost you at least half a hour (and then you get angry and keep playing another one), why don't you spend more time to wait for a good game? And eventually, if more and more people plays seriously, it is not necessarily the high level bot will filled slow, because everyone knows that's the place to have a good game.
With the multiple level bot, there is something else we can do, instead of just ban forever, we can reset (decrease) the points to lower down a player, so that they cannot ruined a game in the higher level bots.
In fact the game is only ruined by bad players, like the 4 cases I listed above. If there is a way we can tell who is good or bad (isn't it the reason we make rank?), why don't we use it to help making better games?
But ofc, this assumes the ranking system working well, which is another topic I would like to discuss later (I think the point difference should be bigger than now within the team).