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Prog Wrote:benben10 Wrote:the penalty for leaving should be not getting the points if your team wins after you leave and losing twice the amount of points then normal if your team loses.
2 points here:
*If you hurt your team a lot by leaving you should get punished additionally. If your team loses after you left, you probably are part of the reason they lose. If it still wins, your leave probably didn't effect them to much.
*A lot of leavers leave as soon as they think the game is lost and not because they got to go (or something similar). By punishing losing leavers additionally we have a countermasure to that. (For example I remember in one of the previous beta rankings which was not made public we had a well known player with exactly as much left games as lost games.)
Problem is when you get kicked for whatever reason there might be and then your team looses after that. You basically get punished twice for something you cannot do anything about. Seeing as there is no difference in lost points between being kicked/disconnecting or just plain leaving.
Adding another penalty on top of that would be quite annoying for someone that never leaves but gets kicked once in a while.
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Kicking will be changed significantly next version, so that won't be a problem at all.
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Prog Wrote:Kicking will be changed significantly next version, so that won't be a problem at all.
Ok, sounds good. Hard to discuss anything when you're being kept out of the loop. What I'm saying is probably already outdated 
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Prog Wrote:*If you hurt your team a lot by leaving you should get punished additionally. If your team loses after you left, you probably are part of the reason they lose. If it still wins, your leave probably didn't effect them to much.
if you leaving hurts your team, then that must mean you were useful in some way to your team; therefore you were helping them before you left. if a feeder leaves then it would help the team that he leaves and staying would hurt the team.
so it then depends on if a good player left a losing team then it becomes hard to rank. he has skill which should be rewarded, but he is bad sportsman for leaving which maybe should be punished.
what are we trying to rank/punish?
-bad playing skills?
[should be punished/cause rank point loss]
-leaving when team is winning and wins game?
[should not be be punished but should not gain points since is a likely sign of a connection error/failure or personal matter of player having to leave. maybe even award part of the winning points if stayed for most of the game]
-leaving a losing team and having not helped the team?
[should be considered part of bad playing skills and therefore follow those loss points with some additional punishment]
are these part of the considerations of how ranking works? i amjust trying to understand what some of the objectives are in the ranking system.
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benben10 Wrote:Prog Wrote:*If you hurt your team a lot by leaving you should get punished additionally. If your team loses after you left, you probably are part of the reason they lose. If it still wins, your leave probably didn't effect them to much.
if you leaving hurts your team, then that must mean you were useful in some way to your team; therefore you were helping them before you left. if a feeder leaves then it would help the team that he leaves and staying would hurt the team.
so it then depends on if a good player left a losing team then it becomes hard to rank. he has skill which should be rewarded, but he is bad sportsman for leaving which maybe should be punished.
The comment i wrote before has it's problems in the consequentialism involved which would result in problems like the one you mentioned and huge problems in judging who helps and who hurts the team. I think it was a bad argument by my side and I wouldn't agree with it any more, but rather argue by the second point I made (the empirical fact that we have a lot of people leaving a soon as they think they probably lose).
Another thing to add: Playing bad should not be punished, but their skill should be reflected in the ranking (you wrote both with an "/", i just want to clarify here). Leaving in any way should be punished as it always affects the other players in an by unintentioned and unfair way. Might be just a word-thing, but in my opinion it is important to distinct punishing something and having a bad league rank because of skill. Playing bad is not morally bad and thus is nothing to be punished at all, while leaving is.
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you are correct in saying it was a word thing. i did mean that low skills should be reflected by low ranking and not additional punishment.
i had another idea to account for disconnects to some degree. have a log of pings for a game and when someone disconnects the ping log could be checked for extended periods of high ping. and that game could maybe be excluded from that persons ranking, or some other appropriate measure taken.
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If it is not possible to technically detect a real dc or a leave of the game, it is possible to add a command like "-this_is_not_dc" similar to -kick? So the remaining players can vote to decide wheter the player is disconnected or left, which gives no penalty if the dc vote is passed. But of course the command has to be designed wisely such that the cheating is not possible.
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Hi I just noticed that the bot is sometimes not recording the control point captures.
I just had a game then that didnt record it properly.
I just thought I should tell u guys.
I like to play.
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psycodiver Wrote:Hi I just noticed that the bot is sometimes not recording the control point captures.
I just had a game then that didnt record it properly.
I just thought I should tell u guys.
A replay of such a game would be nice  hock:
Changed a couple of thing within internal data structure and fixed two errors with balancing - one error caused for example equiem to play 146 of 150 games on the dark side of the force :roll:
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eSVau Wrote:[...]Changed a couple of thing within internal data structure and fixed two errors with balancing - one error caused for example equiem to play 146 of 150 games on the dark side of the force :roll:
Nooo, so you did change it. I was just looking around for something like this.
Why couldent it stay as before? Since this really cant be an "issue" for that many other players except the top 10 (or maybe higher).
I was growing quite fond of Dark Force and this last game felt really weird.
Actually, I kinda saw it as a perk of being high up in the ladder. Not sure why it was a bad thing :wink:
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Equiem Wrote:Why couldent it stay as before? Since this really cant be "issue" for that many other players except the top 10 (or maybe higher).
I was growing quite fond of Light Force and this last game felt really weird.
You get used to. I was quite often the second best (ELO wise) player in game and since the best were distributed to the dark force i got fun with light force hock:
But thanks to you i noticed another bug with balance, which forgot one pair of players to balance :o
It took me quite some time (a couple of days) to fix this very hidden issue :roll:
Marvin Wrote:The first ten million years were the worst and the second ten million years, they were the worst too. The third ten million years I didn't enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of a decline
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Any chance of you adding Total Kills / Death, KD ratio,Average APM and some other things to the player overview?
Since you're already tracking the stats I guess you might aswell use it. Would be a sweet feature anyways.
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ssl Wrote:see http://btanks.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3260.
Its related but its not really what I'm asking for. I was thinking more about adding another feature of having all your total Kills/Deaths and whatnot combined in a small box at the top of everones profile. So not only gamespecific like it is now.
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Oh well then I misunderstood. But I doubt it is possible to show external data inside of a Warcraft III map...
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ssl Wrote:Oh well then I misunderstood. But I doubt it is possible to show external data inside of a Warcraft III map...
But thats not what I mean either...
Its for the Ranking homepage ( http://league.btanks.net/ranking.php) so not inside the game or whatever. The info is collected and printed out already, just need to track a few more values for the total score.
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Now I get it  Yeah that should be possible. eSVau is your man for that. 
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It's a planned features but i've worked at the backend for the last weeks (leaver penalty, balance, etc.)
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hi i'm new here.
i just want to ask a question.
is it normal to get penalty and a leaver count if i get kicked?
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Sharky89 Wrote:hi i'm new here.
i just want to ask a question.
is it normal to get penalty and a leaver count if i get kicked?
Yes, its exactly the same as leaving the game (right now).
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