Wtf Happened to HB?

[psycho_dmr]

btw, no idea why you think that "too many peope" have been banned here... we only banned 2 ppl since this forum is online: Ring- (because of racism) and Drake.Mordred (because of massive spam and offensives against the whole normal-playing community).

if i should guess, i would say you're drake

[Guest]

There are alot of problems here. Most of it became clear when the HB situation was turning over.
Words like "FUCK HB HOMOS"
And alot of dishonest things said about HB to promote the removal of HB.

Its classic sales-pitch behavior. Extremely dishonest.

In alot of ways the map editors became like salesmen, extremely dishonest, skewed, and exaggerated regarding HB. My intuitions are never wrong. My gut tells me that you were promoting an agenda regardless of what people said or did, and in the end you did exactly what i knew you were going to do, you removed HB. All the talk and nonsense was meaningless pointless distracting discussion to try to make yourselves look better about doing what you wanted to do, which was to remove HB. Every chance the editors get they promote the removal of HB, lessen the impact of HBs removal, and create an illusion of the truth while at the same time pretending to promote peace fairness and an act of unbiased behavior.

You will say things like we knew we'd lose a few players.
Few? As opposed to how many? Why not say, i knew we'd lose alot of players?
Putting few in the sentence creates the illusion to lessen the impact that you created.


The act of removing HB was to me and many others extremely provocative and the addition of saying we can give suggestions is an added insult. Its the equivalent of kicking someone in the face and than inviting them to dinner. You did something many people did not like, and yet you act like other people are disrespecting you.

Please stop asking for my account, its a very troll thing to do, and im sure youd use it against me. Have a nice day.

[Paladon]

Yeah, here are a lot of problems. But i disagree with the issue of dishonesty.
The removal is not executed without services in return, we are finishing the new league in this very moment, playable for everyone just by joining the online games, and we are steadily improving the "official" modes into a direction that is coming closer and closer right into the direction of the positive apsects of "high bounty".
But filtering essential and productive informations out of all the spam and, well, justified complaints, is not easy at all.

We made mistakes during the informational phase, but we are working on the consideration.
We're also trying to improve the communication concerning information between DevTeam, Mappers and your part of the community.
But everyone is needed for all of the mentioned issues, not only the two mappers.

[qweqqweq]

u do lie a lot paladon.. if u don't even realize it i don't care to understand the reason. i'm just going to assume you have a good reason i can't fathom.

[Guest]

Yeah, here are a lot of problems. But i disagree with the issue of dishonesty.
The removal is not executed without services in return, we are finishing the new league in this very moment, playable for everyone just by joining the online games, and we are steadily improving the "official" modes into a direction that is coming closer and closer right into the direction of the positive apsects of "high bounty".
But filtering essential and productive informations out of all the spam and, well, justified complaints, is not easy at all.

We made mistakes during the informational phase, but we are working on the consideration.
We're also trying to improve the communication concerning information between DevTeam, Mappers and your part of the community.
But everyone is needed for all of the mentioned issues, not only the two mappers.

I think the biggest problem i can see is this.

You fail to acknowledge and appreciate the full scope of removing HB. Your only expressed view is that removing HB is somehow beneficial to the btanks community and that a few players who dont really matter because they dont agree with you will be upset with the decision. You took away the mode a majority of the players enjoyed playing and any reason you gave just appeared to me to be excuses for promoting your goals. Your bias has been clear from the beginning, the majority of people who post here love normal mode and disrespect anyone who enjoys playing HB. I have yet to see a map editor or admin type one positive thing about players who enjoyed HB.

I think that alot of HB players saw your move to remove HB as an unprovoked attack. It felt like an attack to me. The admins and map editors for some reason REFUSE to acknowledge that the removal of HB can be seen as an extremely aggresive attack. I believe that a majority of players who played btanks enjoyed HB enormously.

....

the most important thing by far


HB players wanted to coexist peacefully with normal mode players. It sounds tacky, but its true.
There was no reason everyone couldnt enjoy all the available modes that btanks offered. And if a person wanted to play only normal mode than awesome, theres nothing wrong with people doing what they enjoy, it wasnt hurting anybody.
I might be wrong but removing HB was an act of war.
To me and maybe some other people maybe alot maybe a few, but i feel you are the people responsible for taking away enjoyment.
Thats just my opinion.

Note: 2nd post deleted and merged.

[eSVau]

You took away the mode a majority of the players enjoyed playing

There is no proof that the majority has palyed hb!
http://btanks.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=...979#p34359 and http://btanks.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=...490#p34380 clearly shows otherwise.

Perhabs you should tanke ur stupid "this forum is biased"-argument and turn it around. Ever thought about most people at this forum are against HB because the majority don't even like it, which the mapgnome data tells us.

Maybe you are the blind ones, always pointing on other and yelling "you're false, i'm not" wont work. So please, proof your statements or stfu.

More than 1000 registred users and only a few bitching around because of hb (excluded, IlPalazzo, the only one we had a nice discussion about hb, even it was on irc)

v.i. http://btanks.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=...604#p34604

[IlPalazzo]

There are alot of problems here. Most of it became clear when the HB situation was turning over.
Words like "FUCK HB HOMOS"
And alot of dishonest things said about HB to promote the removal of HB.

Its classic sales-pitch behavior. Extremely dishonest.

In alot of ways the map editors became like salesmen, extremely dishonest, skewed, and exaggerated regarding HB. My intuitions are never wrong. My gut tells me that you were promoting an agenda regardless of what people said or did, and in the end you did exactly what i knew you were going to do, you removed HB. All the talk and nonsense was meaningless pointless distracting discussion to try to make yourselves look better about doing what you wanted to do, which was to remove HB. Every chance the editors get they promote the removal of HB, lessen the impact of HBs removal, and create an illusion of the truth while at the same time pretending to promote peace fairness and an act of unbiased behavior.

The "FUCK HB HOMOS" siggy was coined by Bennie. Although it was a disrespectful and rude to comment these players - he takes no part in the map making process.

The Mappers did try to make some communication to the HB crowd via forum - but it was an outdated method. The old league faded away a while ago and with that - 95% the incentive to join these forums and the website. What they got back was feedback from the old league - mostly players that have played and continue to play normal mode - and mostly against HB.

Though I would agree there is significant bias on this forum, and sometimes rude behavior that was condoned because it - I still would not pin this on the Mappers themselves. They spend a lot of time coding for the map, and the amount of time they can spend taking in information and feed is limited. They asked for feedback and suggestions, but the the failure the overall atmosphere on this forum that HB players are not welcome - thus is was impossible obtain information from the community as a whole.

HB players wanted to coexist peacefully with normal mode players. It sounds tacky, but its true.
There was no reason everyone couldnt enjoy all the available modes that btanks offered. And if a person wanted to play only normal mode than awesome, theres nothing wrong with people doing what they enjoy, it wasnt hurting anybody.
I might be wrong but removing HB was an act of war.
To me and maybe some other people maybe alot maybe a few, but i feel you are the people responsible for taking away enjoyment.
Thats just my opinion.

Agreed fully... I personally enjoy both modes. Though I do think it's possible to replace HB with something equally fast and better balance-wise, having both around offsets the monotony that sets in when you play the same game over and over x100 times. It was a good thing in my opinion.

Please stop asking for my account, its a very troll thing to do, and im sure youd use it against me. Have a nice day.

Very well, you are entitled to your privacy. You are free to express your views, privately if you insist, about HB, possible improvements to the mode, and any counter-argument mentioned for removing it. You will NOT be banned for this - you have my word on it... If there was any intention to do away with you, your library's computer IP would have been block a while ago.

There is no proof that the majority has palyed hb!
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2979#p34359 and viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2979&p=34490#p34380 clearly shows otherwise.

Perhabs you should tanke ur stupid "this forum is biased"-argument and turn it around. Ever thought about most people at this forum are against HB because the majority don't even like it, which the mapgnome data tells us.

Whether HB is a majority or not is beside the point... They are a considerable part of the community. Even though 8.56 does not have HB, there are still many 5k Alternative games, indicating the some players are still trying to reach for a "faster paced" game.

Maybe you are the blind ones, always pointing on other and yelling "you're false, i'm not" wont work. So please, proof your statements or stfu.

This is the rudeness/bias that he was referring to... It's one thing to say his statement is wrong and to tell him why. It's another thing to call him blind and to stfu. It's these subtle ways of conveying yourself that leave the HB crowd pissed off and wary of the DevTeam/Mappers. I won't edit your post, I'll leave it to you to decide if you want to keep it that way or not.

[Guest]

You took away the mode a majority of the players enjoyed playing

There is no proof that the majority has palyed hb!
http://btanks.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=...979#p34359 and http://btanks.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=...490#p34380 clearly shows otherwise.

Perhabs you should tanke ur stupid "this forum is biased"-argument and turn it around. Ever thought about most people at this forum are against HB because the majority don't even like it, which the mapgnome data tells us.

Maybe you are the blind ones, always pointing on other and yelling "you're false, i'm not" wont work. So please, proof your statements or stfu.

More than 1000 registred users and only a few bitching around because of hb (excluded, IlPalazzo, the only one we had a nice discussion about hb, even it was on irc)

Where does the need to say stfu come from? How do you expect a fair and unbiased dialogue when you speak to a person like that? If i were to tell you to stfu would this post even get approved?
Why is the burden of proof on the HB side? Its a well known fact that HB was the most popular mode played on btanks.
its been said many times by the editors and admins that HB was never supposed to be a normal mode, and never supposed to become as popular as it is. it was one of your excuses for removing it.

[Saiyuki]

Maybe you are the blind ones, always pointing on other and yelling "you're false, i'm not" wont work. So please, proof your statements or stfu.

Why is the burden of proof on the HB side? Its a well known fact that HB was the most popular mode played on btanks.

come on guys, get down. hb was maybe for a short time a popular mode, but before it was the old league and now it will most likely be the new league. in fact even before, rush and ultra rush was quite popular.

if you ( hb group ) can't work together with us and learn to give some suggestions instead of preaching the lost mode, there won't ever be any kind of replacement for the fast paced mode you all loved. if you closely check the comments done by the beta team, devteam and mappers, you would have known, that these new modes are not final just now and that there might come new ones. if we get some more good and balanced input, we may create a fast paced mode that all are content with or implement these features into the other modes.
if you still think we won't do any changes, check out the changelog.

# Tank bounty, creep bounty, force upgrade gold and xp gaining rate are increased by 7% in all modes

for the other side, like eSVau, i can only state the obvious facts. stay objective on discussions like these, even though one can't call this a discussion, as the title already suggests. if you can't, because you fell somewhat attacked, simply do not respond. not meant to be offensive. ;-)

[Guest]

Maybe you are the blind ones, always pointing on other and yelling "you're false, i'm not" wont work. So please, proof your statements or stfu.

Why is the burden of proof on the HB side? Its a well known fact that HB was the most popular mode played on btanks.

come on guys, get down. hb was maybe for a short time a popular mode, but before it was the old league and now it will most likely be the new league. in fact even before, rush and ultra rush was quite popular.

if you ( hb group ) can't work together with us and learn to give some suggestions instead of preaching the lost mode, there won't ever be any kind of replacement for the fast paced mode you all loved. if you closely check the comments done by the beta team, devteam and mappers, you would have known, that these new modes are not final just now and that there might come new ones. if we get some more good and balanced input, we may create a fast paced mode that all are content with or implement these features into the other modes.
if you still think we won't do any changes, check out the changelog.

# Tank bounty, creep bounty, force upgrade gold and xp gaining rate are increased by 7% in all modes

for the other side, like eSVau, i can only state the obvious facts. stay objective on discussions like these, even though one can't call this a discussion, as the title already suggests. if you can't, because you fell somewhat attacked, simply do not respond. not meant to be offensive. ;-)

Why would anyone want to work with the people who steal from them?

You took HB mode away from players who wanted it, we didnt have a choice in the matter.

And than you think people will want to work with you?

[eSVau]

Well, i'm kinda annoyed and yes, i'm biased towards hb and i'm wrong anwsering the same way some hb-players did, i mean the rude way and i'm sorry for that.

[Guest]

Well, i'm kinda annoyed and yes, i'm biased towards hb and i'm wrong anwsering the same way some hb-players did, i mean the rude way and i'm sorry for that.

how do you think the HB players feel about the unprovoked removal of their favorite mode?

no one removed the mode you like to play and youre upset? You dont have anything to be upset about in my opinion.

[IlPalazzo]

Why would anyone want to work with the people who steal from them?

Paladon, Velocity, and the rest of the DevTeam are the ones pouring hundreds of hours of their free time to edit (and hopefully improve) the map. It's their time, and thus their choice on how to use it... If you don't like it - 8.55 will still be around so HB players can play it anytime.

You took HB mode away from players who wanted it, we didnt have a choice in the matter.

And than you think people will want to work with you?

....

how do you think the HB players feel about the unprovoked removal of their favorite mode?

no one removed the mode you like to play and youre upset? You dont have anything to be upset about in my opinion.

Paladon conceded that the information gathering and communication between him, the DevTeam, and the players were lacking. It's for this reason the HB community feel shafted by this decision - and also the reason why the DevTeam has not yet come up with a suitable replacement for the mode.

There are balance issues that need to be remedied before a new mode is released. You don't need to get over your bitterness, but it certainly won't help make any progress to rebalancing and replacing HB.

[Guest]

Why would anyone want to work with the people who steal from them?

Paladon, Velocity, and the rest of the DevTeam are the ones pouring hundreds of hours of their free time to edit (and hopefully improve) the map. It's their time, and thus their choice on how to use it... If you don't like it - 8.55 will still be around so HB players can play it anytime.

You took HB mode away from players who wanted it, we didnt have a choice in the matter.

And than you think people will want to work with you?

Paladon conceded that the information gathering and communication between him, the DevTeam, and the players were lacking. It's for this reason the HB community feel shafted by this decision - but also the reason why the DevTeam has not yet come up with a suitable replacement for the mode.

There are balance issues that need to be remedied before a new mode is released. HB players don't need to get over their bitterness, but it certainly won't help make any progress to rebalancing and replacing HB.

There was no lack of information. 5K HB mode was the most popular mode hosted on bnet. You have all the information you need right there.

[IlPalazzo]

There was no lack of information. 5K HB mode was the most popular mode hosted on bnet. You have all the information you need right there.

Yet only a (very) small handful of players came onto these boards to suggest improvements to the mode... On the flipside most HBers don't understand why the DevTeam consider HB imbalanced.

[Guest]

There was no lack of information. 5K HB mode was the most popular mode hosted on bnet. You have all the information you need right there.

Yet only a (very) small handful of players came onto these boards to suggest improvements to the mode... On the flipside most HBers don't understand why the DevTeam consider HB imbalanced.

i dont care why they think its unbalanced, it was just another excuse to remove HB. They were going to remove HB regardless of what was said and what happened. They would have removed HB no matter what anyone proved or said.

[IlPalazzo]

u do lie a lot paladon.. if u don't even realize it i don't care to understand the reason. i'm just going to assume you have a good reason i can't fathom.

Care to elaborate why you think he is a liar? I don't see any ill-intent to screw the HB community.

i dont care why they think its unbalanced, it was just another excuse to remove HB. They were going to remove HB regardless of what was said and what happened. They would have removed HB no matter what anyone proved or said.

They do have sound reasons for wanting to replace the mode - not mere "excuses." ... I understand where you're coming from, but it's a shame you think that way, because if you can't believe the Mappers do have good intentions for the game then you're wasting your time here. If you can't at least give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll listen to some suggestions and criticism then both the HB community and the Mappers lose out in improving this game the way we all see fit. Without a reasonable drive to fix them an HB replacement won't ever get done.

[Guest]

u do lie a lot paladon.. if u don't even realize it i don't care to understand the reason. i'm just going to assume you have a good reason i can't fathom.

Care to elaborate why you think he is a liar? I don't see any ill-intent to screw the HB community.

i dont care why they think its unbalanced, it was just another excuse to remove HB. They were going to remove HB regardless of what was said and what happened. They would have removed HB no matter what anyone proved or said.

They do have sound reasons for wanting to replace the mode - not mere "excuses." ... I understand where you're coming from, but it's a shame you think that way, because if you can't believe the Mappers do have good intentions for the game then you're wasting your time here. If you can't at least give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll listen to some suggestions and criticism then both the HB community and the Mappers lose out in improving this game the way we all see fit. Without a reasonable drive to fix them an HB replacement won't ever get done.

youre complicatingmatters.

they never had to remove HB.

if theres a problem, it was caused by the unnecessary removal of HB and the dishonesty and bias surrounding the issue.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Removing HB was ill intent.

it ruined the enjoyment of alot of players.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Merged 2 posts.

[GooglyBoogly]

i dont care why they think its unbalanced, it was just another excuse to remove HB. They were going to remove HB regardless of what was said and what happened. They would have removed HB no matter what anyone proved or said.

If you believe this, then why are you here? Your statement implies that nothing can possibly change their minds, so why waste your time asking for a reason that you are certain you already know, for a change you believe will never happen?

[Guest]

u do lie a lot paladon.. if u don't even realize it i don't care to understand the reason. i'm just going to assume you have a good reason i can't fathom.

Care to elaborate why you think he is a liar? I don't see any ill-intent to screw the HB community.

i dont care why they think its unbalanced, it was just another excuse to remove HB. They were going to remove HB regardless of what was said and what happened. They would have removed HB no matter what anyone proved or said.

They do have sound reasons for wanting to replace the mode - not mere "excuses." ... I understand where you're coming from, but it's a shame you think that way, because if you can't believe the Mappers do have good intentions for the game then you're wasting your time here. If you can't at least give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll listen to some suggestions and criticism then both the HB community and the Mappers lose out in improving this game the way we all see fit. Without a reasonable drive to fix them an HB replacement won't ever get done.

I sincerely doubt they have sound reasons from removing the most popular mode played at the time. I knew from the beginning that these people hated HB and were planning its removal for a long time, kudos to you you finally got what you wanted. Why pretend like you had sound reasons for the removal of HB? Doesnt it strike anyone as odd that the people who removed HB and hate it the most and the people who pretend to know the most about HB are the same people who play HB the least? You people prefer normal mode. What makes you an expert about HB if you dont even really play it?


why do i post if i believe that? because i dont like being lied to.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i dont care why they think its unbalanced, it was just another excuse to remove HB. They were going to remove HB regardless of what was said and what happened. They would have removed HB no matter what anyone proved or said.

If you believe this, then why are you here? Your statement implies that nothing can possibly change their minds, so why waste your time asking for a reason that you are certain you already know, for a change you believe will never happen?

at the very least i want people to see who you really are, its enough for me to expose all the bullshit that gets typed here
is this an honest respectable forum, or is this a place where the end justifies the means?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Merged 2 posts.