[Tutorial] General 4 phases strategy by Althend.

[Althend]

See first:
Tiers tanks : http://btanks.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=...ers#p30724


Hello, this topic is a general guideline to help newcomers/average players to play the 20 first minutes at Btanks.
These lines are general help to not feed in an internal game inside clan. (and then to be godlike in pub :p)

First of all, you have to understand that it is for 3k start and that the tutorial is based on 4 phases:

1/ the first 5 minutes
2/ the 10th minute
3/ the 15th minute
4/ the 20th minute

Each of these phases has some specific characteristic you have to know.


Nb: these are basics to survive in internal game. The phase conception is limited but is a good way to start. If you use it in pub for example, you should not have any problem to "win".


1/ Phase 1
During the 5 first minute, you have to decide between 2 types of build. Going saver or fighter

-Going saver means, keeping some static build until phase in order to get higher tiers tank (you decide if you can go straight to tiers 2,5 or tiers 3 depending on the behaviour of enemies and teamamte). Most of the time, going saver means being defensive and focus on creep, exploiting the mistakes of the offensive opponent to get the kill.

-Going fighter means, getting a weapon/hull during these 5 minutes to be more offensive. The idea is to get enough kills to compensate the "saving lost"(when you changes tank, you lose 50% of the money, bounty is there to compensate it)
(added by intedeteminismus: The ability to creep better is also a main reason to go fighter, the ability to "occupy" the terrain and to get more creep than enemy is really important)

---> If you opponent goes fighter and you don't, it does mean that he should be able to make you retreat to your cp. You would get a "creep lost" since the tower gets some creep. Then you have to judge if his "push" is too important or not to make you react by going fighter to counter him.

ex: you get stuck in cp and kill some creep while he is able to kill creep AND attack your cp. He destroys the tower and then just have to wait the next"wave" of creep to push the cp and kill you. (since his tanks/item are better than your, you should not be able to handle him 1v1)


2/ Phase 2
The 10th minute is crucial, The players get a large amount of gold from from and all savers should be able to go tiers 2 tanks. Some players are level 7-8 and then can do at least 500 damage by using one skill. (from thunter to heavy)
The basic idea is that all players should have at least 2000-2500(3k during the 11-12-13-14th minute if possible) hp at 10th minute to avoid insta dead. By insta-dead I mean, double rocket/or any offensive skill and then you dead.

-Saver: you have to hurry up to change your tank/hull. A basic strategy is to focus on savers to get easy gold. If you get a hull, then you mean to go straight to second half tiers 2 tanks or to tiers 3 tanks. This long saving strategy is possible only if enemies dont focus on you and "forget" you".

-Fighter: You are tiers 1 tank against tiers 2 tanks. You had advantage, now you don't have it anymore. There is 2 cases
a/ Enemies feeded you enough so you are able to compensate to go tiers2 tanks too
b/ They did not feed you enough. Then... Get a Hull, if you don't have one or upgrade your hull if you have one. now you have to understand that you have to start saving for another tank. Getting another hull/weapon would not really help you because some players will get level 10 soon, your tiers 1 tanks will become a serious handicap. So try to get tiers 2 tank. (staying tiers 1 tanks, require some specific advanced tech)




--------------------> Most savers of phase become tiers 2 tanks and now adopt "fighter" build.

3/ Phase 3

At 15th minute, all tiers 2 players should have got a second weapon. (some of them as low range, would focus on low hp tanks) and some players should have got level 10. If you have least than 3000 hp (3000 is really low, you must have good skill to not feed with it), you are screwed.

- Saver: I you did not go to first half of tiers 2, then you go to 6k-8k tank. Going straight to tiers 3 is much more harder. Saving strategy allow you to get an average of 2000-2500 gold each 5 minutes. You need to reach the 20th minute without feeding too much (and creeping/hyding during 20 minutes is quit boring)
----> Lets call saver who aims for second half tiers2 or tiers 3 tanks as "long term saver"

-Fighter: You are tiers 2 tank. between 10th to 15th minute, you have been and have to keep on exploiting your advantage against long term saver.
Now you just have to adjust your item to much long term plan. You are kinda free to do whatever build you want.


4/ Phase 4

The 20th minute is the final "basic" phase conception.

--> Good long term saver should get their big tank.

--> Fighters should get at least 6000 hp.

Some tiers 2 start to save for tiers 3.

Since the game is very wide and possibilities are huge from now. There is no more "phase guideline"

Just remember: LEARN and ADAPT.

Final tip:
It is usually easier to go saver until phase 2 to get tiers 2 and then go fighter. Since saving is much more easier at start of the game than mid of it ^_^
(the bounty/creep provide higher gold so fighting gives much more result to "compensate" )

I would add that the main ability of a "pro" players, is to be able to "skip" these basic pattern and get a better result than these basic phases.

To know more advanced tech: http://btanks.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=...585#p36585

[ArGoLi]

wow how long did you need to create that??
The mode is good but i think its now too strategically.
I think its a new map which doesnt is really like bt anymore when i understood it right...
Maybe it can get good map but i dont think in bt we have in the moment.
You have to know the map better and its not good for noobs imo.

[IlPalazzo]

Haven't read through it all yet, but it looks nice so far.

Unless anyone has anything wrong to point out, I think it merits a sticky. :wink:

[Prog]

We don't need stickys, we have the wiki (http://btanks.net/wiki/Category:Guides) where this could be easily added

Some remarks on topic:

*In the idea of deciding to play "fighter" it is important to emphasize the better creeping capacities. That's the main reason for getting weapons/hull early game.

*Saving straight to tier 3 (which is not defined and I think it is better to speak of tank gold cost and not of tiers, as gold costs are well defined - we would need a concensus about tiers otherwise and as discussions here showed the variaty of tier-concepts is huge) should point out the gold saving of skipping 1 tank-change or an early hull.

*6k hp at the beginning of phase 4 is not necessary. I think the general advice should be 4k+ hp.

*Phase2: You miss on the concept of playing a starting tank until late game with hulls/repair/pack or hull/mass long range. -> add something like "-fighter c/ Mobile tanks (helicopter/medivac/antigrav) might play with additional hull/repair and/or weapons if you plan to stay at your tank until the very late game to save the lost gold by tank-change."

[Althend]

@ind.

What you write is true but it is just a basic tutorial.
I missed also the 6th minute shredder tech.
For the 6k hp. I just wrote it like that. It is much more easier to not feed. Keeping 4k hp is kinda hard in intern
Concerning the phase 2 fighter c/ I dont think we should add all specific strat. There are some specific techs to "avoid" the main guideline. Actually I think that adding them to the tutorial would make it really hard and long to write/read ^_^

I would add that the main ability of a "pro" players, is to be able to "skip" these basic pattern and get a better result than these basic phases.

Ex: being able to get tiers 2 in 8th min. Being "weaker" in 1v1 but better in 2v2.


Concerning the repair. I stil have some difficulties to "classify" it. It is like the hull, repair and teleport itself. These items make it able to skip tiers/phases basics but they rely a lot on skill and reality of terrain.


The phases strategy is like the tiers vision. They have some limits but are some basic that all "pro" players may have as first guideline that they improve/personnalise. I think that starting with a guideline is much easier than starting from all micro strategy ^_^
Even if I know you are not "pro tiers vision", you actually know it perfectly ^_^

[Prog]

That fighter c stuff is no specific strategy. It is more like a couple of strategies, Heli with weapons(middle range)/hulls/repair, Heli with weapons (long range)/hull, Heli with weapons(middle range)/hulls/repair robots, Medi with weapons(middle range)/hulls/repair, Medi with weapons(bow+long range)/hulls, Medi with weapons(middle range)/hulls/repair robots, Antigrav with weapons(short range)/hull/troops, Antigrav with weapons(short or middle range)/hulls, Antigrav with weapons(short or middle range)/hulls/repair,...(not complete i guess). Many strategys go that path of playing and I don't think they are only viable for advanced players. Playing a starting tank after 20 minutes might not be a real handicap if you have enough effective hp (hp/repair/troops) and enough mobility (air or antigrav).

It's like currently you're saying "rush for tank" and I think you should be saying "rush for tank or rush for hitpoints (possible with certain tanks)". I just think it is no good idea to teach in a basic guide that you should do something, but at least 1 out of 5 experienced players in a game does something completely different, something which is said to be bad in that basic guide. When I start learning a game by reading basic tutorials and I see a lot of good players doing something which the basic guide doesnt explain at all, I might lose trust in that guide/that site.
In my opinion there would be no common strategy missing if you add something like the possibility to stay at a starting tank (including the 6min shredder, thats with your current model allready explained).


btw: Keeping 4k hp might be hard in intern (it is not in most cases, but we dont need to argue here^^), but it is obviously not hard in publics and as this is a basic turorial it is enough to say 4k+ in my opinion.

[Althend]

I see what you mean, but staying start tank is hard tech (I think so). Most players do it but are bad at it.
I guess I should mention that staying start tank is a possibility but I think these strat require a specific tutorial. I plan to write these later. ^_^

[Prog]

bit off topic, but important anyway:

I think for implementing all those guides into the wiki we should

a) create wiki entries for basic concepts, like tiers (and alternative concepts), phases, etc and mention at the beginning of every guide which basic concepts are used in this specific guide, so that readers can easily see what assumptions in the terminology and thoughts are necessery to be known for a certain guide.

b) categorize all guides into [concept] [basic] [advanced] [expert]

So at the start of a wiki guide entry we have something like:

Code:

Althend on 4 early game phases
Level of play: Basic
Concepts used: Tiers, Phases

or

Code:

Effective Siege Tactics
Level of play: advanced
Concepts used: none

or

Code:

Healing Hints
Level of play: advanced
Concepts used: none

any thoughts?

[Althend]

Mmmmhhh Isn't there a system of link that makes that when you sue a concept, the word become a link moving to a page describing it?

[Prog]

It's possible to link of course, but i think it should be instantly visible when you open a wiki guide what concepts are used so i propose doing that at the beginning/top of every guide. Otherwise the term linking to the concept might comming up in the middle of a guide, which could be annoying. (At least for me: when I read something and in the middle of the text is a concept used i don't know it irritates me, as i have to look up that concept and continue reading afterwards -with negative consequences for my reading fluence [not sure if thats the right term].)

It might look like this http://btanks.net/wiki/User:Prog (but I'm not really good in that wiki stuff^^)

[IlPalazzo]

We don't need stickys, we have the wiki (http://btanks.net/wiki/Category:Guides) where this could be easily added

Easier for me to press a couple of buttons and just sticky the thing :wink:. I'll let you folks sort out the wiki and unstick these threads when everything's all fine and dandy. Until then I'll leave them up do they're easier to access and edit.

[Prog]

It's now on the wiki http://btanks.net/wiki/General_4_phases_strategy.

I reworked few parts slightly, but without changing the message.

[GEN_Schwarzkopf]

Well written Althend.

I would confirm that long-term saving is very cost-efficient overall for the team, but could cripple the player's ability to farm creeps. This can hurt their league rating.

For example getting an early hunter would be good for the team, but the player would likely be behind in creeping permanently without getting kill credit for the last hits. Often the fighter will be getting the last hit.

- Most of the high-rated players go fighter build, most often air, saving early for Teir 2 tank. Players with Teir 3 tanks often under-estimate them.

- Medivac is often a very good early game farmer since you won't need to buy mana, but it's best that there is only 1 of these on the team.

- Rob

[scron2]

This implies that games last a minimum of 20 minutes. What about the rest of the game?

[Teo_live]

Interesting read, gj Althend

[cRo_best]

Dont listen to altboob this is all uselles alt is boob he will teach u all wrong listen to cro legend !!!

[Althend]

Dont listen to altboob this is all uselles alt is boob he will teach u all wrong listen to cro legend !!!

HAhaha don't talk this way about your goddess!

Anyway, the dynamic of the game has changed trough the time. People tend to swap from tiers1 to tiers 2.5/3 immediately. (always check your teamates, in a team of 5 players, don't have more than 2 players saving straight to tiers3. Smart opponent would take cp easily if you all are underpowered.

[cRo_best]

Dont listen to altboob this is all uselles alt is boob he will teach u all wrong listen to cro legend !!!

HAhaha don't talk this way about your goddess!

Anyway, the dynamic of the game has changed trough the time. People tend to swap from tiers1 to tiers 2.5/3 immediately. (always check your teamates, in a team of 5 players, don't have more than 2 players saving straight to tiers3. Smart opponent would take cp easily if you all are underpowered.

alt if u need help about bt just ask dont be shy....