What about the other tanks

[NoobStrike]

I was just wondering, when is the last time anyone really seen someone play a ghost tank... a guard... an earth robot... a demolisher (else then by going random)... I myself see:

-Scout: Just often enough to say this is a new viable early option
-Light Tank: Just often enough to say this is a standard opener
-Plane: Not so often anymore... I feel it's cost should be 800 so it can start with fireball or 2 basic magics. Adjust HP accordingly.
-AntiGrav: this is a situational tank, I think it's ok as it pops in once in a while
-Demolisher: Went from being used often to a tank noone even mention no more. They only demolishers I see are people doing Random. This tank need some love.
-Shredder: Used just fine, fairly often, virtually always 1 per game...
-Lightning Tank: Very often used... Yet don't feel it's OP, let it be.
-Ghost Tank: Well... his name tells it all... This ghost does not appear in games... Need some love / rework.
-AirShip: He's fine, appears now and then... Don't touch it.
-Heavy Tank: He's fine, appears often too...
-Goblin Tank: EH, don't know what to think of this 1. He so should work well... Yet... he doesn't. Anyway, I think he's a funny option to leave in game...
-Earth Robot: Appeared a lot early on to try him but he already seems to be in the junkyard with demolisher and ghost tank... Not so sure why but I will propose something.
-DemonTank: In no requirement games... by far the most used tank... I am guilty of not playing much requirement games yet, so I don't know about requirement games...
-Frost Tank: This tank exist? Needs a rework...
-Sky Fortress: So many discussions about this tank, no need to put more here.
-Infernal: Infernal is sexy and works fine + I love his spells :p.
-Titan: ... 25,000$ who dominates the game, it works for me.

So, I'd like you guys to get feedbacks on the junkyard tanks if you have ideas... We always cry about the OP tanks but never about the gimp tanks... Let's give them some love. (Demolisher, Ghost, Earth, Frost)

[NoobStrike]

Demolisher: The tank's biggest issue is to farm. Multibow doesn't do it no more... I'd say give him a creep skill. Like the wave spell, I'd be curious to give it a huge damage bonus but making it creep only. That would gimp his killing blows but allow him to farm... 1 idea... am sure some people can be more imaginative.

Ghost: Trash this tank and start over? The heal (auto cast 1) doesn't do it, the lack of damage burst, aoe, disable makes him so... well, all you can do is pretty much sit at a cp and hope someone runs into you... So, suggestion: revamp him from scratch.

Earth: Man, this hero seems so rigged... have we just not been able to a way to make him good? Anyway, 1 suggestion I got is: Make him invulnerable when he uses his dust wave, make the dust wave animation faster... Finally, make dust wave aoe a bit bigger (if that's possible). I really think dust wave is what doesn't work for this tank.

Frost: I so rarely seen this tank in action, I know he has a freeze spell, a blizzard spell... a slow somehow... Now that infernal's cost is 18,000, maybe bump his cost to 15,000 and make it worst 15,000... just a though...

[Gammagulp]

Firstly, ... what is with the guard - you even didnt meantioned it, so does this tank even dont exist in the junkyard ?

Demolisher: I think it gets too bad since the anti creep weapons lost power and so its starting option for good creeping lost, too.
I hope its artillery strike therefore can maybe get a bit higher AOE, maybe +50 or +80, because in a laggy game or a good moving enemy, who is aware of this spell, is extremely difficult to hit.

Ghost: There was a time I played that tank more often and I even tried it recently, but I have to say this ultimate really belongs to the yunkyard.
You can push your troops quite well in HP up, but when an enemy tank with AOE Ulti kills all troops, and there are a lot of AOU ultis, its for nothing.
Even it starts with healing 200HP (or 250) and every new level only heals additional 50HP. As I remember the old ultimate was a healing for everything in a certain range every second. And now it is just taking mana, only every 3 seconds or so and dont heal the ghost tank himself - so IMO a big drawback for a quiet weak tank.

@noobstrike
Yes no stun is really bad, since this tank is even slow compared to the others. MAybe a short one time life/mana leach with a short stun could be a nice improvement.

Earth Robot: IMO just not used enough, but if you use it well (And I see some guys really good with it, because it has 300 Speed) you can get a tough tank with a little dustwave lvl 1 escaping spell.

Frost: Hmmm, I already wrote a suggestion, because I used it and found it difficult to kill somebody effective - maybe cause of a little lag I couldnt use the frost stun and the ultimate (blizzard) well (One time the frost was over before the first blizzard shards even reached the ground ). Also maybe everyone plays with Earth dust wave, SF Boost, ExtraSpeed or teleporter so I was not able to hold someone longer than that 2 seconds in range. (Compared to the demon Stun it is quiet useless till now)
Another thing is, that you can buy just after 55 minutes, and demon after 20 minutes if you got enough money.

[SirJoghurt]

think about ---> -hb and demon tank ^^

then you know why you see much less of all other tanks ^^



eDiT_

requierments should be auto on and should not be can turned out ^^

[Gammagulp]

in -hb you can buy new tanks really fast and the ghost tank got nearly useless, because the ghosts only get good with a high creep level. And after maybe 10 min. creeplvl 2 is nothing. The balances for normal games dont exist in -hb, so thats an extra Point, but is not the main problem for normal games with no other tanks.

[SirJoghurt]

8 of 10 games are -hb

in the other 2.. i see other tanks

[Gammagulp]

Well I often play with a mate hosting publics and he dont play BT so I dont experienced it. In other games I usally got 50%, but even that is really much, yes.

I forgot to say, that the guard also got creeps and that they are also weak after 10 minutes, when you could have saved easy the money for a guard.

[VanHelsing222]

... -hb is boring..... and i hate it when hosts dont write if they use -hb or not...

[frankiethefly]

Ghost tank is quite powerful in small games actually, but my research on that isn't done yet.
Well as far as my experience goes its a valid strat that is comparable in efficiency to the normal demon tank tactic. You start out with a farming scout to reach a high lvl quick then switch to that ghost tank and buy a weapon, gold hull and troop command, the order depends on how the game is going.
Its true that you lack a stun but you will surprise the enemies with increasing the survivability of yourself and your teammates by a lot if it is a small game and the ghosts deal friggin huge dmg(good for farming, too) if the enemy doesn't run quick enough even at low creep lvl. All that matters is that you have to have 4-5 of them, then everytime they hit it really hurts.
Imho its a really good choice against air units because with the net hold your ghosts become really powerful as the enemy isn't able to run for 2 seconds.(I'm so obsessed with net >_<)
As for the ultimate it really sucks or at least I haven't found a good way to use it yet. Just drains the mana too much.
The rest of the skills are cool especially the one that heals you if an enemy hero is killed. Thats a lifesaver which shouldn't be underestimated.
To sum it up its a perfect support tank for early to mid game and will surprise a lot of those demon tanks with poison magic.

[Gammagulp]

I also used ghost tank some time and you said the same things I experienced. I used life heal (soul restore) and ghosts, but the ultimate is really difficult to use and sometimes even useless. But I want to disagree the point with the air. For every try to hold an airtank you have to pay 200 Gold - thats pretty much if the enemy goes on early airship ang gives just 280 or 290 Bounty. The Plasma Rain is not good for your troops and ghosts.
If you face a Sky tank its even worth, because the whole AOE Ground spells it can use even if it is in the net. If your enemy does not he was not the same good Skytank I had to face, when I played gfhost before.

I think its playable, but needs a lot of skill and good Itemcombination to get it into real good use. Against demon with Poinson magic - hmmm in teamplay its ok, but 1on1 you can really lack, because if it uses stun and AOE short range ultimate good with maybe own troop command you can be dead really often as you have only little speed and demon got far more HP.

The lifleech is good against air, that cannot stun you, but usally air gets fast out of range and you cannot hold the enemy long enough for a good leech. The ultimate ... well, we already said everything ^^

[Carcharoth2]

I disagree with demolisher.

Especially because of this many scout tanks out there.
Artillery is hard to aim, but very strong against scout. Same for mines.
He has much HP, long range is no problem for demo.
In mid you can use demo with bow, against 2 scout with long range for example a very good choice, try Demo he is still good

[Prog]

[...]try Demo he is still good

... if you play 10x better than your opponent. In comparison to scout demo is way harder to play.

[Carcharoth2]

^^
Scout is still imba i think. the only imbalanced tank in 8.50

[NoobStrike]

I disagree with demolisher.
In mid you can use demo with bow, against 2 scout with long range for example a very good choice, try Demo he is still good

Lol, demo with a bow will get outfarmed BAD by just about any tanks... Demo cannot really get any kill before level 5 (where he has mines level 2 and either nukes level 2). By then, scouts often have their first hull, light tanks are about 1 to 2 levels from changing to thunder tank... so yeah, in a pros game, if you're lucky with your demo, you ll kill your opponent twice or 3 times but still be outfarmed. Sounds like a great plan.

No honestly, demo is not good :p.

[Gammagulp]

Well Demolisher is not bad, thats true, but he is not good I suppose; I compare this strategy to chopter effectiveness now.

He is just good, if you play against 2 tinker, and can kill them quite often with artillery strike or scout without fast hull if you level your damage abilities fast enough.
But I think you agree, that making the anticreep weapons less effective this strat is not as good as it was before.

[NoobStrike]

See, I love your answer: If you play against 2 tinkers that you can kill fast enough or scouts without hull (good luck with that in any decent level games), for tinker is pretty obsolete and rarely used as people got good into countering them and any decent scout without hull will have a lightning tank or a hull before you can get those abilities high enough to start really killing him...

So pretty much, what you're saying is: if you play against noobs or mentally challenged people, you can play with a demolisher and still own them... (euh grats, now try getting a kill blow with a scout and 2 multibows... that's a challenge but it's not impossible, I let you figure out how). I mean, even tinker can be a war machine with 2 gold hulls upgraded, 3 frost lasers and a ultimate pack against a light tank naked... Anyway, not much feedbacks on the other tanks... I guess noone cares about the gimps, everyone cares about the overpowered tanks.

[k-bones]

I played demolisher today, and sadly it's only effective vs noobs, just as I find antigrav. The 600/1100 hp bonus isn't so great as everyone tends to take no damage at all in early stage, later on hulls make up for the difference. Picking a bow makes you creep as much as ur enemy but makes you almost unarmed versus tanks, one basic magic is very weak. Artillery shot can kill a tinker but come on, how much will you get before he finally gets a hull... 800?1k? If he is a noob. Otherwise with that little target area you won't hit a creep I think most people just prefer a LT, which can kill basically everything. It has stun, aoe, can get a 2k wep, and can fairly survive before getting iron or steel.

[TKF]

...and you can lay mines with demolisher.

[Bobguydude]

The 600/1100 hp bonus isn't so great as everyone tends to take no damage at all in early stage, later on hulls make up for the difference.

Of course people take damage in the early stages, how else do you get kills? I've noticed that even the hp difference between a light tank and an antigrav can make a difference early in the game. Also, the Antigrav can do 500 damage in a decent area with good range at level 4. That's pretty effective against just about everyone and everything, not just noobs.

And in response to TKF: That is an important point. The mines can make a big difference. They do 320 damage a level, right? That's enough to take down a light tank with 2 mines if mines are at level 2, which can happen pretty fast in a good game. You don't need good weapons early when you're enemies die before they can even get to you.

[kittyonmyfoot]

demo: decrease cd and casting delay on wave

ghost: make ultimate passive again or rebuff health on summons... putting a slow on the mana drain would be nice.

Earth robot: make earthquake into a dust storm and affect air as well. Increase the speed debuff on it too.

Frost Robot: get rid of the level req


Problems I see:

demo hard to farm with... except for experts: make wave farming skill

ghost ultimate cumbersome, no stun, easily overcome with tele + aoe: keep summons out of aoe insta death until high lvls

Earth robot: no stun, slow skill doesn't work vs air: affecting air will solve only part of the problem but I haven't tried him with a net >.<

Frost Infernal: vastly inferior to the regular Infernal yet positioned too close price and lvl wise: get rid of reqs and let demons and frosts fight it out.