Abolish Leavergold?

[VanHelsing222]

Hi guys,

the leavergold only ruins games, if 1 player leaves its over. The team with 4 players gets an advantage, because of the leavergold. Its senseless continue a 5v4.

[qweqqweq]

I voted no helsing. I can see your point though. If a player leaves it can create an advantage for the short-handed team but it's only a temporary advantage. There are very effective ways of dealing with a super fed smaller team though. If they can defend correctly for long enough eventually the team with more players gets a huge advantage. Traders, mines, exploders, anti-gravity tanks, sky fortresses, good teamwork, and backing up your teamates with teleport are just a few of the things that can counter a super fed smaller numbered team. Just remember, some tactics aren't for every game but that doesn't mean there isn't a good time to use them. The team with the leavers should get a little extra gold to give them a chance to end the game before that happens.

In most my games, If I have a leaver on my team the other team complains about leaver gold and how hopeless it is for them. But when I'm on a team with greater number of players people on the other side usually complain about our teamwork tactics and still think it's hopeless for them!

[bangyouredead]

This is rediculous. The claim that the team with less people has an advantage is only made by noobs who don't know how the game works. In a pro game when it's equal before people leave... the team with more people should win np. It's not such a huge difference in 5v4, but when it's 4v3, 5v3,3v2 then it starts getting very unequal for the team with less. They can't defend all the lanes or they just get team raped because they don't have enough people to match. In endgame it is very very hard to win with less people, as everyone has huge tanks and the abilities tear you apart. I hear this shit from noobs all the time...it's BS..the team with more people should ALWAYS have the advantage unless they suck to begin with.

[Gammagulp]

I think the "leaver gold" which you get, when the one leaves is not the important point. It is the gold advantage every 5 min, which is split up between the other 4 Players left and the more creeps they can kill though.
So IMO a leaver before 20min / 25min is an advantage for the 4 Players, while it is quite balanced until 40 minutes gameplay.
If you go further, maybe since minute 50, it would be a disadvantage to loose a strong player just for a quite low amount of gold.

That means an early leaver (or disconnect) can be lethal to a good game just like a late one in the endgame. :|

[Althend]

I voted no, the team with more players has more advantage.

[Gammagulp]

To bring balance in this point I think to change the 5 min Gold (from force) would be a better solution than just delete or improve leavergold - so a balance for every time someone leaves.

[SCorpA1]

I think the "leaver gold" which you get, when the one leaves is not the important point. It is the gold advantage every 5 min, which is split up between the other 4 Players left and the more creeps they can kill though.
So IMO a leaver before 20min / 25min is an advantage for the 4 Players, while it is quite balanced until 40 minutes gameplay.
If you go further, maybe since minute 50, it would be a disadvantage to loose a strong player just for a quite low amount of gold.

That means an early leaver (or disconnect) can be lethal to a good game just like a late one in the endgame. :|

i absolut agree to gamma.
and its a diffrence if there is a leaver in a public game with noobs or a intern clan game. if there is a leaver at about 50:00 in a intern clan game, the with 4 players will loose (if the game was balanced), because the the team miss 1 tank with +5 skills and +6 inventory slots.

i think its balanced how it is

[Bhangbhangduc]

I remember one game, in which I got massively fed, to the point where I figured the game was almost over. But, then one of the enemy players got sky fortress and another one got Titan. Even though I was way richer then everyone else, they just kept doubleteaming me the second we got in teleport range and there was nothing I could do. Half my team were computers busy feeding their hearts out and the only other human player on my team was off doing tinker or something.
I just kept getting double teamed over and over with noone helping me at all, to the point where eventually, the enemy team had enough gold to bulldoze our base.

Moral of the story: team with more teamwork will nearly always win

[VanHelsing222]

In a pro game when it's equal before people leave...

You wanna tell me in a pro game are leavers, then I don't want know which what ''pros'' you play. In a real pro game noone leaves and I am not talking about the nooby league, where only players who think they are the best look for really noobs and win vs them a league game, this is poor.

I think the "leaver gold" which you get, when the one leaves is not the important point.

It is important, at first of leavergold and it is not a "low amount of gold" (Gammagulp) you get... in mid-lategame you get a few 1000 for a leaver, then there is the unbalanced team. Bhangbhangduc: "team with more teamwork will nearly always win", this is true but what can you do when its as example 3v5 and you only can kill one of the 3 with 3 guys of the 5 player team? You can't really do what, because they got the ******* leavergold and now they get fed of the other team.

To bring balance in this point I think to change the 5 min Gold (from force) would be a better solution than just delete or improve leavergold - so a balance for every time someone leaves.

Meep, bad solution... without this money a game takes enormously more time then before.. and a good pro game takes few hours (minimum 1h to 3 or 4h)
I think about my testgame in my clan... it took 3 hours... this game without the 5 minute rule? I think the game would be longer then 3h.
And it would be again unbalanced with your idiotic idea of "balance for every time someone leaves", when you compare the teams gold (all 5 players) to the one team with 1 or 2 leavers has more gold. And yes the team with less player get an advantage, it needn't be much but in a real game its a noticeable difference. Only use the gold wisely, then its over.

[SCorpA1]

You wanna tell me in a pro game are leavers, then I don't want know which what ''pros'' you play. In a real pro game noone leaves and I am not talking about the nooby league, where only players who think they are the best look for really noobs and win vs them a league game, this is poor.

i think even a pro has a real life, and if there is something serious even you would leave(expect you are a very big nerd)

[VanHelsing222]

When someone joins a progame he knows it take long.
And when something seriously happened in RL family etc. then its normal guy, but then they usually begin a new game, only the game is decided then they won't.

[lowprofile]

Leaver gold is usaully minimal...

How often have you had a leaver, and yourself get 2 -3 k? I usally get a a few hundred, which is nice, but nowhere near what a semi ok players tank, weapons etc is worth

[Bhangbhangduc]

Well I guess there's not much point as lots of other people have already said it, but basically, the team with more players will also have a higher income. And more stuns. And more mine laying/defusing opportunities. And the ability to push multiple lanes at once. Etc. The leaver gold is just there to give the team with fewer players at least a chance.

[Gammagulp]

Hmmm VanHelsing I think you misunderstood me. I wrote change, which means change the percantages you got from the force gold for 1-4 Players, NOT deleting it

If 5 players got gold after 10 min gameplay - maybe they get about 550 Gold
The 4 Players - maybe get (dont know the percentages, they are somewhere in this forum) about 750 Gold.

Do you now get what i mean? If a player leaves after 8 minutes the "4 Player team" gets more gold every 5 minutes means maybe.

Just an example (not 100% correct!)
the 4 Player Team get
10min: +200/Player
15min: +230/Player
20min: +260/Player
25min: +300/Player
...
The leaver after 8 min gives jsut a one time 380-420 GOld amount maybe, but
This advantage stays long enough to use it and even worse than the simple leavergold - I dont say delete it, but maybe we can lower it a bit.

To your example. If we talk of midgame 45minutes. You maybe can have Skytank, troop command, light fantastic, and 2 basics or so - that means maybe 23k gold value or so (didnt count exactly).
Now a heavy tank with really good equipment leaves for 800-900 Gold (thats quite usual money I thin)
What want you buy for 800 gold ? you even dont get a basic magic for all 4 players, but play maybe 2on3 mid then.
... with 2 basic magic advantages for the 2 Player - do you want to tell me thats fair ? :mrgreen:

[qweqqweq]

I'm not sure if my factls are 100% right here but i'll try and make an argument...

I think the gold system is fine. If a player leaves I think you get all their gold + some unknown amount of their tank value divided up amung your team. Then the formula for force gold goes from 33.32% for 5 players teams to around 13% for a 1 player team. That's every five minutes. That seems just about right to me and where it should be.

I've said this before many times, I'd like to see the the leaver item system tweaked.

In the first 5 minutes of a normal game:

If some one leaves and they have bought nothing then you get all their gold.
But if they leave after they've bought a tank and a couple basic magics then you get only a tiny bit of gold from them and their items go to the junkyard where they can be bought at a small discount. It's not even worth going to get the basic magics for the discount if you're in a slow moving ground tank, and barely worth it or still not worth it if you're in a helicopter

1 hour into a game:

If some one leaves and they have a frost lazer or something like that then it's definately good to go get that for a discount from the junkyard.
But if some one leaves and they only have items that are worse or only as good as what you and your teamates already have than all their items are useless.

I've previously suggested these two changes and I still think they would be good:
1. a system of buying from the junkyard that's instant and can be done from anywhere on the map
2. all items not sold from the junkyard get removed from the game after 10 minutes and their gold value is added to the force gold.

[koshen]

Battletanks is a game about teamwork. Leaver gold is given to the leaver team so that they might still be competitive. In the end though, I've found again and again, that good teamwork negates whatever advantages leaver gold confers upon the leaver team.

[TKF]

If you suggest to remove leavergold, what should replace it then? I think it has to be something that gives the team with less players some advantage. You didn't make much of a reason or explain why it should be removed.

When a player leaves his players get 1/4 of his tank value with items and 1/2 of his unused gold. (When you sell your items you gain only 50%, so it doesn't matter if you sell your items before you leave). The gold amount is divided by the players on the leavers team.

In share mode the leaver gold is doubled.



As a team has less players, over time their lose advantage over a team with more players over time cuz the power differences get smaller and smaller.

With teamwork against the team with less players, will give the team with less players more challenge. With broken teamwork the team with less players do ofcourse have a bigger advantage against a team with more players cuz they normally are a bit stronger. The leaver gold give the team with the leaver an immediate advantage. But it doesn't properly replace the loss of a team member and it's only a means to balance the game. I think the leaver gold should stay as a balancing element for the game when there are leavers.