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The Compendium of 3K Starts
#1
Well, while brainstorming potential 3K starts, I thought it would be helpful to create a list of various popular 3K starts, just for references sake to give ideas to people looking to experiment.

Helicopter (1000)
Bombarding Rockets (2000)
Style: Long range, Tank Hunter

Light Tank (800)
Tornado Summoner (2200)
Style: Aggressive Tank Hunter, Mid-Range

Light Tank (800)
Basic Magic (1111)
Basic Magic (1111)
Style: Creep Farmer, Aggressive Mid-Range

Tinkerer (0)
Energy Torpedo (2800)
Style: Defensive Long Range, Tank Killer by Retreat

Shredder (3000)
Style: Shield Wall, Counter Attacker /w Shred

Any more suggestions from others?
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#2
Ok, here are some other ways to start a game:

Helicopter (1000)
Basic Cannon (2000)
Good tank killer and farmer, but very fragile!

Anti-Grav (1500)
Glaive-Thrower (1500), Molotov Cocktail (1500) or Basic Magiv (1111)
Slow start, but by the time your level rises you become a very strong tank hunter

Demolisher (1900)
Multi-Bow (1100)
Strong pusher and creep killer, very weak against heroes without your mines, but when you use them correctly this one will become a nightmare for your enemiesWink
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#3
My new favorite (yes i dont like sharing my builds in the open, ppl need to play vs me to figure them out if they are goodTongue but here is oneWink ):

heli (1000) + upgraded multi bow (1600?1650?)

-> you creep a lot ( seriously, a lot!!) at the start of the game and can still kill enemy tanks with your canon+missile with some skill. You can easily save up for either fireball canon (if you do not have patience) or swarm rockets (not because it is imba like ycoseth mentioned elsewhere, but because it is a killer combo with your multi bow). After that.... go figure it out....Wink
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#4
Light tank (800)
Light Plasma (2000)

Gives you enough gold for teleport, which is ideal for blitz tactic at start.
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#5
My problem with going long range is that you might run into a farming misery easily: if you are unlucky (i.e. you never get the last hit) or have other problems getting a decent amount of kills (i.e. high hp enemies / very defensive enemies), you won't be able to keep up since mini rockets are not the best farming tool. I have tried playing with long range weapons only (I think it's absolutely senseless to buy a medium- or short-ranged weapon after starting out with mini rockets or e-torp), but I always either fell behind in terms of making money or plainly had a dps problem in the late stage of the game, when I couldn't hold cps with let's say a couple of mini rockets and that 6k long range weapon, rocket hail or whatever its name is. That might be due to my own incapability, but either way I rather rely on different strategies.

I like starting with tinker and e-cannon once in a while, I usually tp to the bottom right lane asap, push until I reach the enemies' cp and build a tower just out of their tower's range. Money isn't a problem then, you can either go on farming as creeps keep coming, or leave as soon as you have 800 or 1k, for switching to a light tank or a heli. That strategy works best if the enemy leaves you alone, but usually it's not a problem to make enough money for switching or getting a hull even if an enemy goes to your lane right away.
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#6
Well, i tried the range tactic also just now, and its just not my thing. I saw others do really good with it, but i didnt get enough money like tribulation said before. I think, with these weapons you have to get tank kills to get enough money fast enough. But i must say, that game just now may not have been very reliable, since my whole team were feeders, even so much that one player good get a sky tank very fast with later on a couple of rocket swarms. I was practically useless at that time against him while the others kept feeding him and his teammates...
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#7
So right after I read that post about Helicopter + Upgraded Multi-bow, I played in a public game with a skilled player on the other side using it. It's nasty, and definitely works as advertised. He just creeped so well and could skirt away easier at the sign of resistance, just to creep elsewhere. He ended up buying a Hull and Bombarding Rockets, and harassed us all game, very good starting strategy.
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#8
And what was that players name? (stealing my tactic, how dare heWink )
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#9
Well, there are over 75 starting combinations (also including all purchase varieties with exploder^^).

Well I never tried to go tinker and buy 3 xp boosts, or go light tank/heli and buy 2 xp boosts....
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#10
what about tinker with 10x detector? or 9x detector and a teleport breaker? or 4x detector, 2x teleport breaker and 2x net launcher? and if you wait 5 minutes, you can even combine these with reeinforcements and mortar teams!

of course there are more than 75 theoretical possibilities, but do they make sense? i think there are about 15, maybe even 20 possibilities to start with 3k gold, but most of the theoretical possibilities are crap. thats why im supporting the idea, to add upgrade requirements to some of these crappy-start items like speed upgrade, teleport, repair robots, smoke generator... i have seen some of the individual starts... :roll:
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#11
Correction: 75 reasonable starting combinations (and yes, I've seen a exploder with weapons that pwns hard, so reasonable Tongue !)
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#12
How about light tank (800) with fireball cannon (2200). No money left over but I find it's pretty good. Damage per second is decent and when you factor in the 950 range it's not that bad.
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#13
tinker + elctro cannon on lane is also pretty good !
BILLY TALENT SUCKS LIVE; SO DON`T THINK I LIKE THEM ANYMORETongue
Man sollte die Metaller meiden, es sei denn man ist jung, hübsch, weiblich und willig... ...Oder man hat (Frei)Bier
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#14
Seriously, the best way i think is getting :

1) Helicopter
2) Basic Magic

Then kill some creeps to get 1200 glod

3)Basic Magic

Then u become strong against creeps and good tank killerSmile
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#15
helicopter + bombarding rockets ( i think thats the name; its 2000g, has 1.5 sec cd, and has 1300range...)

costs 1000+2000 but good wep start

from here i basically stay on the side and wait for the enemy tank to lose his creep protection. after that i run off to the side, indirect but close enough to shoot them. By then hes weakened, and more creep protection has arrived. if he stays in the lane, i repeat the process. if he flees, hes loses creeps protection and i zoom off to the side. shoot my missile with the stun,and keep up with him while blasting him with my bombarding rockets. the good things about chasing them is that 1.if theyre almost dead and they start hiding out by the tower, bRockets wont target the tower; just their tank, 2.them being next to control points means the only creep protection they get is two marines every 20 sec, 3. 1300 range bRockets means their tower wont be able to hit you, and if they dont have bRockets or 1300range weps they cant hit you back.

-upgrade bRockets with 500g-

-farm 2800gold, then bbuy energy torpedoes, then upgrade it

from here, use the same strategy from the bombarding rockets. considering one hit + the heatseeking rocket skill kills them, getting gold for air ship (4500g) wont be hard. be sure to skill your lead nuke and your jet propulsion (gives hella speed). whatever else you skill is up to you, but focus on speed and nuke. tank cannon sucks.

once you get air ship you should be able to max out jet propulsion. keep in mind that it doesnt stack with any other speed boosts, e.g. speed boost from speed pack, etc- so dont waste your cash on that. if you needed teleport just buy the teleport itself.

farm for laser, and upgrade it atleast once. because you have killer speed, ability to fly over obstacles and the fact that you have everybody on the run, a close range chasing/creeping/something that can actually scratch towers weapon is pretty good.

btw if you have max jet propulsion youre able to fly across the whole map in about 25 seconds- and if we're talking distances between control points... well, right about now you can basically go after anyone who pops out nearby a control point.

get sky tank for 8500gold. after this you can also get death magic (attack heroes only nuke w/ 1300range, 7777) and/or acid cannon (900dmg/1.5cd/1300rangenuke, 12,000)

------
cons for this guide/build: mediocre creep income (until laser is achieved), inability to significantly damage towers, weak when enemy hides behind creeps
pros for this guide/build: few deaths, able to finish heros efficiently, high kill count (balances out low creep income) high speed and flight ability

weaknesses: tinkers who make loads of towers before laser is obtained, people who get AA gun (no one has ever got an AA on me, but its a possibility and can be fatal to you)

things to remember: try not to be TOO agressive until late game, keep a distance; your goal is to snipe-kill them, not suicidal mission them- ya arent an exploder, are ya? towers cant be dmgd at all until you get laser, so dont get too close to a tinker's laser tower or something as its useless.

this builds primary mission is to be a distanced hero killer that farms a lot and hinders enemy heroes as an exploder would- mass death.
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#16
kuronekonin Wrote:helicopter + bombarding rockets ( i think thats the name; its 2000g, has 1.5 sec cd, and has 1300range...)

costs 1000+2000 but good wep start

from here i basically stay on the side and wait for the enemy tank to lose his creep protection. after that i run off to the side, indirect but close enough to shoot them. By then hes weakened, and more creep protection has arrived. if he stays in the lane, i repeat the process. if he flees, hes loses creeps protection and i zoom off to the side. shoot my missile with the stun,and keep up with him while blasting him with my bombarding rockets. the good things about chasing them is that 1.if theyre almost dead and they start hiding out by the tower, bRockets wont target the tower; just their tank, 2.them being next to control points means the only creep protection they get is two marines every 20 sec, 3. 1300 range bRockets means their tower wont be able to hit you, and if they dont have bRockets or 1300range weps they cant hit you back.

-upgrade bRockets with 500g-

-farm 2800gold, then bbuy energy torpedoes, then upgrade it

That's a big leak of that strategy in mid-skilled (or better) games, becouse you won't be able to get a hull or air ship quickly enough to escape heavy tanks rockets. Generally its better to get a second bombarding rocket instead to save Gold with nearly the same kill-efficiency. I'd rather use long range strategys in low or midskilled games, becouse its essential to get enough kills in the early game, which you won't against well playing opponents, but if your enemys don't adept well (which can be seen even at mediocre bt-clan-players) you can get an huge edge.
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#17
I think most of it is true but i got some other con that you forgot. This con is: even if your opponents only buy an iron hull as a counter, its still completly effective against you. They will have time to catch up and you wont get your easy kills on tanks near factorys anymore. If they do that, i still think you are f*** with your bombarding rockets. (i still didnt find a good way to counter that countermove, but i do not play long range that often)

Also i must disagree with you saying that
Quote:tank cannon sucks.
. Maybe with long range (however it gives you the extra power you could use to creep when no tanks around - like when you just killed them-) but it certainly is worth it in other cases. I mean, you get a 60dmg/level for FREE ! Thats a lot, because if you get it to lv3, you just got a 2k weapon for free. When i play demolisher for instance, i level it immediatly and often get kills on tanks who think i cant harm them because i only have the multi bow wich only attacks creeps. (and yes, skilled players will be more aware of that, but a lot of them make that mistake too)
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#18
Well there are still some possibiltys... which are "playable". Here are 2 of mine.

Tinker and Steelhull
you still have like 500 gold left if you walk 425+ if you teleport. You dont get gold this quick but you haven't to run in fear if a vehicle gets near. No its more the other way.... in good teams I sometimes "tank" the enemy because a Tinker has a 2.2K HP what is a bit more then a Heli or LT.

Heli and Grenadelauncher
What I like about the Grenadelauncher is the damage/price ratio and that you can turn it into a AA weapon. That's rly helpfully if you play a sidelane and have a Heli as opponent. Change weapon mode+Stun+Tankcannon (hey guys 60dps for nothing.. thats amazing if you compare it to some other skills). Playing like this you'll propably up speed too to get close enough to the enemy - in games i played this the Helis runned after the first 3 or 4 kills ^^.

btw i just tried LT and 2 Multibows... quite nice for start 2. The enemy tanks are annoying though ....
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Rechtschreibefehler sind gewollt und enthalten iene geheime Formel um Wasser in Bier zu verwandeln. AdÜ
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#19
Oh a doublepost - but since 8.43 there are even MORE

Scout (500)
Mines (2500=3000)
Machinegun (2500=3000)
Tornado Summoner (2222=2722)
Fireballcannon, FoK (2200=2700)
Multibow+grade (1650=2150)
Electrocannon (2700=3200)
if u r crazy Energy Torpedos (2800=3300)
if u play with a leaver or only 4 people ull have 3.3k u could get a tinker with SR and get Sct then

U can get Scout, port front and farm with creepscannon and Watchtower...
then get SR
and so on ^^
This is a signature .... believe it! -or not (that's your problem)

"Ich denke also Spinn ich!" (Spiderman, nach William Shakespear)

Rechtschreibefehler sind gewollt und enthalten iene geheime Formel um Wasser in Bier zu verwandeln. AdÜ
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#20
Irecently did something i was quit new too, scout + troop command.

I just kept saving up ... I thought in start, let's go supportive play, matey, instead of huge mines, i went demon and my skills pownt em hard since i was lvl 12 veteran by time i had 10k tghey earned bout 4-6k. Its a deadly combination, even managed to get 15 kills, no they weren"t noobs, they just adpted on each other, all second weap hulll & play ...

then demon pops out, i wenr troops + speed, then uppe dit, since i still got loads of kills with purely my skills, i went teleporter for ulti, again new load of kills and just went mass flamers, matey, they got powned very hard.

Try this, rlly rocks =)

However pro/very pro players will be able to sabotage uWink
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