[vote] K-D is a bad factor for ranking teams. Should we fix it now with rematch?

[progg]

It's logical.
If u and oldschool advance you both have 6 points. We don't count K-D so result of vs game should decide the first place.

[olivercamel]

@progg,

If you are OldSchool, now here are the options:
1. Without doing a rematch, you are ranked 1st.
2. Do the rematch, if you lose, you are out.
3. Do the rematch, if you win, you are ranked 2nd.

Why do you bother to do the rematch?

You said this:
> Since we agreed on two points:
> 1. K-D sux.
> 2. Sieg Geil is qualified anyway.

I agreed on the 1st point, but I disagree on the 2nd point.

The truth is, with K-D rule, both OldSchool and Sieg-GeiL are qualified.
Without K-D rule, OldSchool, Sieg-GeiL and Oldsotch are all qualified, cuz they all have 6p.
So your 2nd description is wrong.

So if we say "K-D sux" and take it out, then we should make rematch for 3 teams.
But now Sieg-GeiL wouldn't risk to do the rematch, so we are trying to step back to see if OldSchool wants a rematch vs. OldScotch.

If the OldSchool really stand out to prove they can win in any case, with or without K-D. We should appreciate and encourage them. Why do you want to punish them to lower down the rank even after a win?

[Althend]

The k/d ratio should totally be removed of the equation.

Cause if we take account of it; following the schedule and stats, some time could totally do strategical giveup. For example for the case of Elite vs Bug, Bug could totally give up after we capture mid cp to reduce k/d ratio. If there was no change of schedule,

The k/d ratio itself is an alienation of Btanks spirit. The only important si to win; if u have 20/1 ratio but u lose ur game in priv; it just means that u were selfish and didn't spread the gold (and being able to share kills, creep and everything is a really important part of teamplay; especially in mid)


Do new matches but remove the k/d ratio as deciding factor.

In case of draw: count the amount of cp and factories in base (if u lsot all cp but destroyed 3 fac in enemy base, it should compensate)

[progg]

@progg,

If you are OldSchool, now here are the options:
1. Without doing a rematch, you are ranked 1st.
2. Do the rematch, if you lose, you are out.
3. Do the rematch, if you win, you are ranked 2nd.

Why do you bother to do the rematch?

You said this:
> Since we agreed on two points:
> 1. K-D sux.
> 2. Sieg Geil is qualified anyway.

I agreed on the 1st point, but I disagree on the 2nd point.

The truth is, with K-D rule, both OldSchool and Sieg-GeiL are qualified.
Without K-D rule, OldSchool, Sieg-GeiL and Oldsotch are all qualified, cuz they all have 6p.
So your 2nd description is wrong.

The reason why we start this whole thread was situation between oldschool and oldscotch.
It's unfair to one of this team to count K-D. Sieg-Geil isn't interested in this rly.
So if we change the rules and let vs game decide.
Since it's not SiegGiel's fault that the rules are changed, they don't have to play minigroup od 3teams. Only interested teams should play it - Oldschool and Oldsctoch.

If the OldSchool really stand out to prove they can win in any case, with or without K-D. We should appreciate and encourage them. Why do you want to punish them to lower down the rank even after a win?

Their rank can't be lowered down since there's no rank if we don't count K-D.

[El_Polacco]

So if we say "K-D sux" and take it out, then we should make rematch for 3 teams.

If the OldSchool really stand out to prove they can win in any case, with or without K-D. We should appreciate and encourage them.

i hope sieg-geil and boozers will do the same as forum members expected oldschool for new challenge . Extra games should be played from thursday to saturday . If there wont be referees for that there were some announcement of backup referees up for tour.Then quaterfinals should be moved for sunday if above-named teams gonna agree that schedule . In worst case it shouldnt be a trouble to postpone tour for a week

[gozo1985]

sorry but i think this all is going in a direction which i cant be happy with.

everyone knows the current status:
1. oldschool
2. sieg-geil
3. oldscotch

facts:
1) sieg-geil wont do a rematch so they already in and if there will be a rematch between olds they can only win (first place or just stay where they are place two) - ofc they dont wanna play anymore and i totally agree with their decission

2) oldschool (my team) can only lose in such a situation. if theres a rematch and oldschool loses, they are out. If they win they ranked 2nd place (becouse sieg-geil won their directly match)... so they can only lose (ending at 2nd place playing a more difficult enemy).

3) oldscotch. if theres a rematch they can only win. they can end up at first place and getting easier enemy or ofcourse they can keep their 3rd place with a lose but then it would be "their own fault". i also totally agree with their oppinion to play another matches.

as this is still a part of group deciding games there cant be a draw so theres maybe a 2h+ Titan war game. And i think i will not play in a groupd phase match that long with also a bit of lotto (end game dead = 1min respawn). or just waiting till enemy is doing something wrong to counter them and killing base in one rush.
Thats a reason why we have a BO3 and the final (also BO3? - dont know right now). Especially when we end up in a worse place then if we dont want to play such a match.

ok thats just a oppinion right now and i prefer playing than calculating. but if one of the teams (sieg-geil) dont want to play as part of this "loop". It totally makes no sense to me of playing a decission round just for the two others of the loop.

this is no offense to any team or oli with his rules. its an oppinion and a drift of my thughts last 2 days.

[PeVerall]

Well, now I really want to join this discussion. I myself am not sure whether a public debate could fix this problem.
I (as a member of Boozers pretty much directly affected) would rather like to make a final decision only in the groups itself, without an inclusion of the public. I'm not sure whether all player would like to deny a remake of those games since it's a public discussion where your words and actions could be somehow used against you or might look selfish or unsportsmanlike, hence I think no one except the included groups should be added in such a matter and no one should doom someone for not being able or interested in redoing something that already happened according to the rules (while i know the rules include a possible way to create remakes). If there's already a decision made in those groups (every single member should be included, not only the leaders) you should be taking further steps. Even if that'll take more time, I'm pretty sure you won't really find a fitting solution here since there are so many different opinions even by guys who aren't even in the situation.
Another point: Maybe delaying the BTT could create some serious time issues. I'm not even sure whether I could play any game during the week (as you said between thursday and saturday, if I remember correctly)...
Still I hope and am pretty sure the "management" will find an adequate solution. Greetings

[gozo1985]

as its a change of rules everyone whos in BTT 2012 (rather hes affected by the rule or not) should tell his oppinions and thoughts. I hope with "groups" you mean ALL groups in BTT2012.

[FirePhoenix]

If Sieg-Geil doesn't wanna risk any rematch, they should be 2nd for sure and so not 1st.
So it's then between OldScotch and OldSchool.
The winner will be 1st, the loser 3rd.

And between Boozers and BuG there should be a rematch as well.

But the games should be from Tuesday - Saturday that the quarter-final games can be happen this Sunday. A delay for one week wouldn't be good.

[gozo1985]

i just want to say that we not decided now if we are going to play rematches.
as we all bit more busy during week this might be a probem also that not all in our team agree with griffins oppinion. and as our captain he maybe have his own oppinion about rematch but not all in the team - and right now we discuss this for a final decission.

[griffin1987]

I've got some replys from my team and there seems to be two possibilities for us:

1. no rematch, go by the rules and oldscotch is out (favoured)
2. IF we have rematches, we'll only do it if sieg-geil participates, because: if we remove the k-d rule, then we're all on the first place, and as such, if we do rematches, sieg-geil could drop out as well, leaving oldschool and oldscotch. In the case we have a loop again, go by 1. (oldscotch is out) as otherwhise we'd have to add another week.

I'm sorry to have said something which might have been a bit different before, but that was just reflecting my own oppinion. These two options are now officially what we as a team - not I as an individual - decided.

---

Now, again, something from my own oppinion:
Can't we just add 2 groups (BuG and the one (whichever) from group C) to the next round and have more games?

Thanks Oliver btw. for striking out those lines. I appreciate it.

Best Regards

[daCe]

the rules of the tournament before the beginning were already fixed. all the teams they have read and agreed to. To change it would be wrong. you can look after the tournament which perhaps went wrong, what can you do better, but not right in the tournament.
in the end it's your decision Oliver. You sponsorst this tournament.

my opinion: you have only to leave rubbish with the 90 minutes, then there would be no problems.

[Terror-Sheep]

Now, again, something from my own oppinion:
Can't we just add 2 groups (BuG and the one (whichever) from group C) to the next round and have more games?

Thanks Oliver btw. for striking out those lines. I appreciate it.

Best Regards

that is a good idea but doesnt work in semi finals.... then u have 5 teams :/

[bot365]

I will try to keep it short [lies] !!!

Personaly i would like to rematch and continue playing on this tournament, wos fun so far Maybe there is other option, make 2 new groups 3 teams go on from previous groups and they get starting points acording to their positions in previous groups
1) 3 points
2) 2 points
3) 1 point
Similar system is used in hockey, after that, 4 top ranked teams from each group go to play vs each other 1st from one group vs 4th of other group, 2nd vs 3rd... It would make tournament longer and give chance for teams to play more togeather.
And it would make fair for other groups i think.

And considering this situation about group C (i am not familiar with situations in other groups), I (i dont talk in team name but only for myself) am good with anything that will decided, everyone played fair and did their best. To be honest we all knew about rules, we all had same chance and therefor i understand Oldschool players, in their case i would be unhappy as well, but i am unhappy in our position we could farm beer tanks also, thing is system had this "bug", but on other hand we all knew about it, we just didnt think how to take advantage out of it, everyone played fair but we played like sports doing our best and hoping for best without calculations. I really wouldnt like to go on and have enemies in bt community where i go to have fun and relax from real life, dont want people to say bad things cause it wos decided one way or another... Hard decidion on you Oli, wouldnt like to be in your skin atm. I really enjoyed tournament so far and sure i would like to have chance to play some more games vs good teams, this wos new experince for me, untill now i wos just league player.

In the end i would like to remind that this is game = fun and we should all aproach it that way. Without hard feelings, emotions and self ego promoting purposes. I will not quote anyone; he said, she said, we said cause it makes no sence, i will accept bt community and oli decidion.

At end i would like to take oportunity to thank people that played with me, they are good people and wos really good for me to get to know them and have chance to share battle field with them. They were always on level either we win or lose, we got to know each other just before tournament and i wos afraid how will it turn out, but now i couldnt imagine better team...
Pull out some liquor, and glasses up for OldScotch-s !!!

Best regards Lucis

[Terror-Sheep]

I will try to keep it short [lies] !!!

Personaly i would like to rematch and continue playing on this tournament, wos fun so far Maybe there is other option, make 2 new groups 3 teams go on from previous groups and they get starting points acording to their positions in previous groups
1) 3 points
2) 2 points
3) 1 point
Similar system is used in hockey, after that, 4 top ranked teams from each group go to play vs each other 1st from one group vs 4th of other group, 2nd vs 3rd... It would make tournament longer and give chance for teams to play more togeather.
And it would make fair for other groups i think.

And considering this situation about group C (i am not familiar with situations in other groups), I (i dont talk in team name but only for myself) am good with anything that will decided, everyone played fair and did their best. To be honest we all knew about rules, we all had same chance and therefor i understand Oldschool players, in their case i would be unhappy as well, but i am unhappy in our position we could farm beer tanks also, thing is system had this "bug", but on other hand we all knew about it, we just didnt think how to take advantage out of it, everyone played fair but we played like sports doing our best and hoping for best without calculations. I really wouldnt like to go on and have enemies in bt community where i go to have fun and relax from real life, dont want people to say bad things cause it wos decided one way or another... Hard decidion on you Oli, wouldnt like to be in your skin atm. I really enjoyed tournament so far and sure i would like to have chance to play some more games vs good teams, this wos new experince for me, untill now i wos just league player.

In the end i would like to remind that this is game = fun and we should all aproach it that way. Without hard feelings, emotions and self ego promoting purposes. I will not quote anyone; he said, she said, we said cause it makes no sence, i will accept bt community and oli decidion.

At end i would like to take oportunity to thank people that played with me, they are good people and wos really good for me to get to know them and have chance to share battle field with them. They were always on level either we win or lose, we got to know each other just before tournament and i wos afraid how will it turn out, but now i couldnt imagine better team...
Pull out some liquor, and glasses up for OldScotch-s !!!

Best regards Lucis

i like the suggestion with the hockey system....
glasses and thumbs up!

[Smartie]

Hockey system would be nice ... for next torunament

[bot365]

Hockey system would be nice ... for next torunament

It is sad you got only this from all i said, i wos trying to put peace note to all this and i get this kind of replay from you... Sad man sad..

[El_Polacco]

since theres no agreement and will from qualified teams to play extra games final decision will be made due to another poll and 10 theoretically qualified team leaders ? i guess it would be only one right way . If there won't be acceptance just make schedule of next round

[progg]

Decision must be made asap.
It's unfair for example for BTF - we still don't know who we'll play with.

[olivercamel]

I have received the reply from FoelliX (Seig-GeiL), that they do NOT want a rematch.

In this case, I will wait for griffin1987 (OldSchool). If they agree for a rematch, we will have one between OldSchool/OldScotch.

If OldSchool doesn't want a rematch, we will wait 2 more days for the voting. Based on the voting result, we will see what to do.

We will do as I said like this before.

Now Sieg-GeiL and OldSchool have rejected the rematch. So the voting result will decide if or not we have the rematch.

Actually according to the BTT rule 17, the organizer (me) can change the rule when needed. But I don't want to be called as "the btt is oli's own playground" (some league admin used to be called like this).

So the final decision will be all based on the voting result.


We wait until Wednesday evening for count the votes.

I assume all Sieg-GeiL and OldSchool players do not want rematch, and all OldScotch players want the rematch. So to be fair, we will add +5 votes for YES and +10 votes for NO to the final numbers. (Of course the people of the 3 teams who have voted already will be substracted first).

---

At the end, I want to remind all BTT players. If now we vote to follow the BTT rule strictly, we should all do that too during the rest part of the tournament. I can assure to everyone, that there will be no tolerance at all to any rule violation. Even if all the games will be default win/lose, I won't care about it anymore.