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Early Game Short Range
#1
So recently I've noticed bombarding rockets has become a lot more common in lane play than it used to be. In fact many players (Stolch, Verteidiger, saugeiIl to name a few, but there are many more) have started playing early game lanes with exclusively bombarding rockets. The general idea is players use long range to get ahead of there opponent in the early game and then take a tank (usually heavy or airship) before their opponents can giving them an even greater advantage.

Now I'm not entirely against long range on lane, previously on lane there was a mid-range mono-pool resulting in domination by basic magics and a select few extremely skilled players (Wupti and Lioooooil to name a few), but I feel long range on lane has come to the point at which many people are taking long range simply because there isn't any other reliable way of fighting it, while others take it simply because they know they will have an easy advantage over their opponent. Items like maintenance and troops while designed to counter long range have actually become very useful items for the long rangers themselves (maintenance being the most obvious example of this, I see many start off by buying it right away).

The early game short range weapons, glaive thrower and bonfire, have for awhile been basically unusable. The Range Gap on lane meant that anyone who used these weapons against mid rangers had a very hard time, and even more so against long range. With the exceptions of shredder and antigrav these weapons hardly see any use, even then antigrav has such a slow start sometimes taking these weapons is sometimes a bad idea anyway, and shredder is so pressed for inventory space (needs hulls speed etc.) filling 3-4 slots with bonfires would often backfire.

I feel as though we should implement something that will create a kind of "weapon triangle" in 1v1 situations, where Long Range > Mid Range > Short Range > Long Range (">" meaning beats or greater than). Of course this isn't a "be-all-end-all" kind of thing. Naturally if the skill gap is great enough a Long Ranger could still beat a Short Ranger. Teleporter served this purpose, but it also meant that short range could beat mid range as well, and we have to consider breakers too.

So I don't actually have a literal suggestion, I just wanted to share what I think about the lanes right now. My idea is to somehow make the early game short range weapons a viable counter against early game long range, without being overpowered against mid range., and I was wondering if anyone has any creative way of doing this, or if it's even a good idea in the first place, this is free for debate.
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#2
My solution would still be to apply a speed penalty for every long range weapon someone owns.

That way you would be able to get in range cause of lower speed of lr users...
Marvin Wrote:The first ten million years were the worst and the second ten million years, they were the worst too. The third ten million years I didn't enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of a decline
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#3
(2012-12-31, 00:28:50)eSVau Wrote: My solution would still be to apply a speed penalty for every long range weapon someone owns.

That way you would be able to get in range cause of lower speed of lr users...

While a speed penalty would be nice, I feel the main problem is people who use 1-2 bombarding rockets (+ iron hull usually) at the start of the game and then buy a tank and play normally, this build is simply too unstoppable and too all-countering in my opinion. And they wouldn't be overly effected by a stacking speed penalty since they only use so few weapons. Crippling the speed of people who stack large amounts of long range I feel wouldn't help much since it's much less common, and those people tend to ruin their teammates' economy in the long run.

This does bring me to another point though. Aside from shredder, antigrav, and raider, there are no tanks that can "close the distance" beetween you and your opponent without the use of tp (or nets) until infernal robot. All three of those tanks are hindered by their low hp and speed. *Correction: Earth robot can use dust wave, but I feel this is usually a defense skill, and it's pretty slow moving and short ranged at the lower levels and Earth robot's other skills usually take higher priority* This means that tp breakers are a pretty much for sure counter if Long Rangers are feeling unsafe because of enemy short range teleporters.
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#4
(2012-12-31, 00:28:50)eSVau Wrote: My solution would still be to apply a speed penalty for every long range weapon someone owns.

That way you would be able to get in range cause of lower speed of lr users...

this is a great idea....
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#5
I've been thinking. Perhaps a good idea would be to turn Glaive Thrower into a mode change weapon beetween "creeps only" and "normal." Creep mode giving it massively improved dps for farming. The logic here being since long range will be playing well out of your range anyway, you can trade off the ability to hit heroes for additional dps against creeps. But also retain the ability to fight in case of emergency (unlike bow).
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#6
I always wanted to start such a topic but i'm glad someone else did. ;-)
And i agree that those weapons (namely Bonfire, Glaive and Machinegun) are too weak, especially since the upgraded Deflective Armor can almost absorb their damage and other are more worth to save up (Ice Cannon, Poison, Flamer). Never see one of the current Top 10 starting below 900 range. Maybe influence the cost of a weapon to the formula...
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#7
if 5 vs 5 a team all use long range all heli vs short and mid range other tanks in a tank . gg the long range helis all gang = win

maybe we need a inter rupter weapon that do nothing if ppl shoot you depend on the distance , you reflect dmg x distance
it is a pretty useless weapon against long range i guess
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#8
how about reducing the dmg (not dps) from rockets from 193 to 111 like magic.
so it can be better blocked by armor like bonfire or machine gun
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#9
(2013-02-18, 18:34:51)091846 Wrote: if 5 vs 5 a team all use long range all heli vs short and mid range other tanks in a tank . gg the long range helis all gang = win

maybe we need a inter rupter weapon that do nothing if ppl shoot you depend on the distance , you reflect dmg x distance
it is a pretty useless weapon against long range i guess

When you start a game you can watch out which weapon got your opponents to not be in this case. And i never saw full lr vs full sr. And now it's harder to gank with lr because you know can hide behind towers + stay grouped => Handle till you can own them.
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#10
(2013-02-20, 21:10:51)Max Wrote: When you start a game you can watch out which weapon got your opponents to not be in this case. And i never saw full lr vs full sr. And now it's harder to gank with lr because you know can hide behind towers + stay grouped => Handle till you can own them.

are you playing BTanks for camping at a tower or are you playing BTanks for having fun? ._.

atm. btanks is unplayable for me, because of rep. robots. (look at my other post in the rep. robots thread.) Before that, btanks was playable but boring because of overused LR... developer! what are you doing?Sad
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#11
I'm on it. I'm going to release a balance and bugfix version next. After that there will be a feature version again.

I actually wanted to add an convenience feature into the next version (regarding the blueprints), which takes some time. After that I will take care of the balancing and then the bug fixing. So make sure everything gets reported in time, so I can fix as much as possible for the next version ;)
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#12
fantastic Smile btw is it just me sometimes when i click the shocker on airship i don't see the animation but the damage is delt to the enemy tank.
Cat power < needs to be implemented into btSmile
Accounts are : , Imba_Kitten, DJ.FM,BENNIE.FM
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