attached is a replay where you can see that esVau "bans me for unsocial behaviour" (it seems he just did right now, without even posting a ban request )
Facts:
1. Pink voted -giveup, which means, he didn't want to continue playing. So I THINK it should be okay to kick him (he doesnt want to play anymore - I help him with that. Easy as that.)
2.shortly before the game, a ban request gets denied, where people kick one player for not giving up ( http://btanks.net/forum/showthread.php?t...3#pid38963 ). So it seems it's not a ban reason to kick someone who doesn't give up. Interesting. Assuming that league admins talk to each other, it seems to be a rule that 1) ít's okay to kick someone who doesn't give up and 2) it's not okay to kick someone who gives up (and thus testifies that he does want to end the game instantly ...)
3. I can't join the ranked bot anymore, probably because I got banned, but can't find a ban request in the appropriate thread. So it seems it's okay if league admins just ban if they want to. In real life that's what you call abuse of power.
I know that sometimes people can get worked up and angry and tend to do things they regret later on - we're all just humans - but at the same time I would find it to be justified to get unbanned and get an apology by eSVau, and not because I'm me, but because he abused his power.
Getting used to the Sand everywhere. At least it brings us map updates.
Quote:[00:00] [BersiaK]: -rc -zoom 4200
[00:00] [BersiaK]: Please wait. Players are still loading the map.
[00:00] [BersiaK]: Player [Angler] finished loading.
[00:00] [griffin1987]: -zoom 9999 -rc
[00:00] [Angler]: -rc
[00:00] [Angler]: -zoom 4500
[00:00] [BersiaK]: who want lane?
[00:00] [BersiaK]: Player [Jojoy] finished loading.
[00:00] [BersiaK]: Player [cRo_ownage] finished loading.
[00:00] [BersiaK]: Player [Trahtorist] finished loading.
[00:00] [BersiaK]: Shortest load by player [eSVau] was 16.74 seconds.
[00:00] [BersiaK]: Longest load by player [Trahtorist] was 62.97 seconds.
[00:00] [BersiaK]: Your load time was 33.02 seconds.
[00:11] [griffin1987]: 2 afk?
[00:11] [Jojoy]: -zoom 4000
[00:23] [griffin1987]: 1 afk
[00:56] [Trahtorist]: -zoom 4555
[00:59] [griffin1987]: cro lag?
[01:40] [BersiaK]: omg go back
[01:42] [BersiaK]: pink..
[03:20] [BersiaK]: share doch
[03:23] [BersiaK]: ..
[04:23] [Jojoy]: ty
[04:26] [griffin1987]: np
[04:31] [BersiaK]: idoit..
[04:35] [griffin1987]: yep
[04:39] [Jojoy]: -stats 4
[04:42] [griffin1987]: well look at his equip
[04:50] [BersiaK]: i know.
[05:35] [griffin1987]: li la lucky, lucky lucky luck
[05:37] [griffin1987]:
[06:03] [griffin1987]: thx
[06:58] [griffin1987]: trahto...
[07:02] [BersiaK]: ne
[07:03] [BersiaK]: du
[07:07] [BersiaK]: wärst dran gebliebne
[07:26] [Trahtorist]: speak only russian
[07:36] [griffin1987]: he says in english
[07:47] [Trahtorist]: no
[09:37] [BersiaK]: Angler has lost the connection (connection error - ECONNRESET).
[09:38] [BersiaK]: i dont go lane..
[09:41] [MC_Ren]: bg
[10:02] [BersiaK]: -giveup
[10:03] [BersiaK]: kb
[10:04] [Lonely_Stranger]: again leaver ruin the game
[11:02] [Jojoy]: -stats 4
[11:09] [BersiaK]: well, im out
[11:14] [BersiaK]: BersiaK has left the game voluntarily.
[11:17] [Lonely_Stranger]: )
[11:22] [Jojoy]: ..
[11:27] [griffin1987]: join to leave, yay
[11:31] [Lonely_Stranger]: now u lose
[11:39] [griffin1987]: ?
[11:46] [Lonely_Stranger]: 3-5 unreal
[11:47] [dirtyterror]: you guys won't giveup?
[11:52] [griffin1987]: just won last ranked 3 vs 5
[11:56] [griffin1987]: i never
[12:03] [dirtyterror]: senseless game though..
[12:07] [dirtyterror]: not fun at all
[12:08] [griffin1987]: then dont join
[12:11] [griffin1987]: you can leave if you want to
[12:14] [Lonely_Stranger]: u're stronger when 3-5
[12:14] [dirtyterror]: 3v5 is senseless..
[12:19] [griffin1987]: then leave
[13:00] [griffin1987]: trahto?
[13:08] [griffin1987]: hm and 1 dop
[13:20] [griffin1987]: 5vs2
[13:29] [griffin1987]: oh he woke up
[14:14] [Lonely_Stranger]: orange, mb u win when u have all cp? and its real 3-5
[14:53] [griffin1987]: well pink is more like -1 player
[15:04] [Lonely_Stranger]: anyway u cant 3-5)
[15:08] [griffin1987]: sure
[15:11] [griffin1987]: as you see
[15:24] [dirtyterror]: its just egoboosting stats lol
[15:30] [griffin1987]: ?
[15:37] [griffin1987]: i came to play so i do
[17:23] [Jojoy]: -giveup
[21:27] [Trahtorist]: -giveup
[23:49] [griffin1987]: -kick 8
[23:52] [Lonely_Stranger]: )
[23:56] [dirtyterror]: no giveup but kick..
[23:57] [Jojoy]: giveup man
[23:58] [dirtyterror]: really man
[24:01] [griffin1987]: ?
[24:03] [Trahtorist]: -giveup
[24:12] [Jojoy]: oj giveup
[24:15] [griffin1987]: people who vote giveup dont want to play anymore
[24:23] [griffin1987]: so why would it not be okay to kick them?
[24:28] [griffin1987]: -kick 8
[25:07] [griffin1987]: -kick 8
[25:12] [Jojoy]: ...
[25:15] [Lonely_Stranger]: )
[25:26] [griffin1987]: he voted giveup so he doesnt want to play anymore anyway
[25:28] [dirtyterror]: Trahtorist has left the game voluntarily.
[25:51] [eSVau]: well, banned for unsocial behavior
[25:54] [griffin1987]: oO
[26:00] [griffin1987]: he voted giveup
[26:05] [griffin1987]: means he doesnt want to play anymore
[26:07] [griffin1987]: so i kicked him
[26:09] [Jojoy]: i did to man..
[26:11] [griffin1987]: WHERES THE PROBLEM?
[26:20] [eSVau]: no problem, u have a ban, period
[26:23] [MC_Ren]: the problem is thats there is an option to kick people
[26:23] [griffin1987]: ...
[26:31] [MC_Ren]: and ranked reqzirements are so low
[26:35] [griffin1987]: well esvau is okay with kick system he said on forum
[26:39] [Lonely_Stranger]: what period?
[27:15] [eSVau]: so u dont want to giveup but cannot bare a not well playing player?
[27:21] [griffin1987]: he wanted to give up
[27:26] [dirtyterror]: so what..
[27:27] [griffin1987]: and btw
[27:30] [dirtyterror]: he wasn't hiding behind the base
[27:31] [dirtyterror]: was he?
[27:35] [griffin1987]: why did the 4 ppl gozo asked to ban not get a ban then?
[27:39] [griffin1987]: same situation
[27:45] [dirtyterror]: because it would be stuipid to ban 4 people
[27:48] [griffin1987]: ..
[27:51] [dirtyterror]: just to satisfy the rage of one person..
[27:54] [griffin1987]: so you just do what fits you?
[28:00] [griffin1987]: thats called abusing power
[28:02] [dirtyterror]: it's not me idiot
[28:25] [griffin1987]: i'm talking to esvau anywqay, but thanks for flaming me
[28:35] [Lonely_Stranger]: thx for the gam
[28:36] [Lonely_Stranger]: e
[28:38] [griffin1987]: gg
[28:39] [dirtyterror]: Jojoy has left the game voluntarily.
[28:39] [dirtyterror]: cRo_ownage has left the game voluntarily.
[28:41] [dirtyterror]: dirtyterror has left the game voluntarily.
[28:41] [Lonely_Stranger]: eSVau has left the game voluntarily.
[28:49] [Lonely_Stranger]: Lonely_Stranger has left the game voluntarily.
Marvin Wrote:The first ten million years were the worst and the second ten million years, they were the worst too. The third ten million years I didn't enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of a decline
2013-07-28, 23:57:16 (This post was last modified: 2013-07-29, 00:15:24 by griffin1987.)
Thanks for posting the chat log.
Some notes for those taking the time to read this (and didn't view the replay):
1. Trahtorist = player 8 = pink
2. Angler (my team) gets ECONNRESET disconnect at 9:37
3. Bersiak (my team) leaves at 11:14
4. Trahtorist votes -giveup at 21:27, I vote -kick 8 (him) at 23:49
5. at 25:07 trahtorist can be kicked by my vote alone (by the rules of the kick system because of "feeding" (that's what it says on the top right in game, not my wording)), at 25:28 he is kicked/leaves (don't know if it always takes 21 seconds for that, so I can't say)
6. Right after that:
[25:51] [eSVau]: well, banned for unsocial behavior
By the way, here are some posts where I suggest for the kick system being changed in a way to include votes of the other team, to no avail. It always ends in the kick system staying as it is.
http://btanks.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=3939 <- here eSVau states that we would normally not have a kick at all (implying that we should be happy about the current kick system) http://btanks.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=3751 <- here eSVau states that it should be harder to kick people in qualify (so it's okay how it works in ranked? - to be fair, he didn't explicitely say that, but what he wrote implies it)
nothing wrong with type -giveup while keep playing your best till the end ( dont deserve kick)
type -giveup is like avote so every player should keep playing till win or lose or full team giveup
using kick system to satisfy your self is abuse of the kick system
so you should kick who deserves kick not the one who type -giveup or the one who dont want to -giveup
the Sad fact is that this is a system and no matter how hard admins works on a map there will be always away to abuse the system thats why a temporary ban is an option to teach abusers who ruin games for example a lesson and make this person play have fun while not ruining the other 9 people fun.
on the other hand banning player without posting ban request is abuse of admin power.
however i belieave esvau didnt mean to abuse his power, he just thinks you deserve ban and banned you, to avoid any one saying abuse of admin power, please kindly make aban request and let other admins approve it for 2 reasons :
1-the person can see his ban request
2-it is more fair and every one will be happy
Finally, admins or normal players, we all are humans and do mistakes.
instead of fighting and throw the blame on admin or any other person. its much better for us and Btanks community to fix it peacefully and say your opinion and suggest ideas to avoid future mistakes.
more over, im also a human and my opinion might be wrong or right. humans do have different opinions but we can still be friends.
Gustave Le Bon "... Die Einseitigkeit und Überschwänglichkeit der Gefühle der Massen bewahren sie vor Zweifel und Ungewissheit. Den Frauen gleich gehen sie sofort bis zum Äußersten. ...".
- So who does deserve a kick in you oppinion (under which circumstances should one be kicked)?
- Typing -giveup is a vote, yes. A vote to end the game with a loss, a vote to stop playing the current game. Do you see that different? If not, then how can it be abuse of the kick system if one follows that persons wish and helps him stopping playing the current game? And if kicking someone after he made that decision is a ban reason, why is kicking someone for NOT giving up NOT a ban reason? (see posted link to ban request) You think it's fair if admins decide such a thing on a whim?
Getting used to the Sand everywhere. At least it brings us map updates.
Marvin Wrote:The first ten million years were the worst and the second ten million years, they were the worst too. The third ten million years I didn't enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of a decline
2013-07-29, 12:24:19 (This post was last modified: 2013-07-29, 12:24:49 by eSVau.)
(2013-07-29, 11:58:57)El_Polacco Wrote: In this case your mates were free to giveup , you couldn't expect them to play till end
All his mates gave up but he only tried and kicked one of those who gave up - must be a double standard
Marvin Wrote:The first ten million years were the worst and the second ten million years, they were the worst too. The third ten million years I didn't enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of a decline
2013-07-29, 13:19:39 (This post was last modified: 2013-07-29, 13:21:54 by griffin1987.)
(2013-07-29, 12:24:19)eSVau Wrote:
(2013-07-29, 11:58:57)El_Polacco Wrote: In this case your mates were free to giveup , you couldn't expect them to play till end
All his mates gave up but he only tried and kicked one of those who gave up - must be a double standard
I just knew that Jojoy won't be kickable going by his stats. Otherwise it would have been a double standard, yes. Just like league admins not banning people who kick others for not giving up vs insta-banning people without ban request for kicking people who give up (or as the kick system stated it, for "feeding")
Edit: Btw you see in El_Polaccos comment that -giveup is normally associated with not playing till the end. Again something which I think proves me right.
Getting used to the Sand everywhere. At least it brings us map updates.
2013-07-29, 15:51:05 (This post was last modified: 2013-07-29, 16:00:14 by gozo1985.)
some facts:
1) griffin is a friend of mine since 10+ years
2) we play BT like 10 or more games every week
3) we played thousands of BT games
3) he never did something which is against the rules
4) we are posting ban requests to get rid of "stupid" players and not complaining if you think its not worth a banrequest
5) i posted a banrequest (read and watch the facts here: http://btanks.net/forum/showthread.php?t...3#pid38963) which was disapproved.
6) you are allowed to kick if someone in your team who doesnt give up
7) you are not allowed to kick if someone other gives up
8) its ok to ban someone without making a banrequest
9) im really really sad about the abusing and the oppinion of eSVau
10) the system is not perfect
11) i respect the admins here and im proud to be part of the community and the great work done here
12) learn from your mistakes
13) i will stop league until griffin is unbanned (if you want you can ban me too!!!!!!)
14) freedom for griffin!
(2013-07-29, 07:13:04)warrior_cobra Wrote: hi
I just have small opinion
nothing wrong with type -giveup while keep playing your best till the end ( dont deserve kick)
I agree with that...a individuell giving up doesnt mean, that someone deserves to be kicked.....his reaction after the the "giving up request" should be the crucial point.
Just a little point i wanted to add/support.
2013-07-30, 02:22:01 (This post was last modified: 2013-07-30, 02:24:26 by griffin1987.)
(2013-07-29, 21:18:22)Terror-Sheep Wrote:
(2013-07-29, 07:13:04)warrior_cobra Wrote: hi
I just have small opinion
nothing wrong with type -giveup while keep playing your best till the end ( dont deserve kick)
I agree with that...a individuell giving up doesnt mean, that someone deserves to be kicked.....his reaction after the the "giving up request" should be the crucial point.
Just a little point i wanted to add/support.
greetings
TL;DR: he was kickable for feeding, first 2 votes then 1 vote needed, so he fed on after first vote (and I'm pretty sure Trahtorist is a long time player, not a newbie), and also implicitely stated that he'd like for him to end the game by typing -giveup, which he was granted by being kicked.
Long version, with explanation:
1 If we go by what he deserved, than the kick system already took care of that, because it computed that he "deserved" a kick for feeding. I only initiated the kick, the kick system then decided that he deserved it with only 1 vote needed. And I'm not so sure he "played his best till the end", as I know the username trahtorist from quite some time ago (I'm sure league admins can check for how long he has been playing), so it could as well be said that he willingly feeded (BUT I never said that, it's ONLY AN EXAMPLE!), and I think it's pretty hard to play 3vs5 with such a bad score. But anyway, the kick system decided he can be kicked for feeding with only 1 vote, not I.
2. As can be read in the forum multiple times, I actually don't support kicking people for bad score. I just knew that he didn't want to keep on playing (because he stated so by typing -giveup) and that he probably could be kicked going by his score (if you look at the posted chat log, you can see that I actually tried 2 times before I succeeded)
3. I'm not so sure I understand what you mean by "his reaction after [...] giving up [...]" - I think you're talking about how Trahtorist behaved after the vote (if not, feel free to correct me of course) ; In that case:
- What would be the behaviour you think it would have been okay to kick him? If he fed? In that case, the kick system answers with a yes, because at first it took 2 votes to kick him, and then only 1, and the stated reason by the kick system was "feeding"
- What does it mean if you type -giveup / what is the intend?
Consider the following, going by plain logic (no specific players/situations or any oppinions, only plain logic):
1. If all players of one team type -giveup, the game is ended with that team losing. Correct? If yes, go on.
2. Point 1 implies that if one player types -giveup, he/she states his/her intent to end the game with a loss. Correct? If yes, go on.
3. If a game is ended, it is over. Sounds dumb, but it implies that it will be over for all players playing the game, and that no player will be part of the game anymore, as it is ended. Right?
4. 2+3 imply that if I type -giveup, it's okay for me if the game ends with my team losing, and that the game will be over, and thus I won't be in the game anymore (as it is over). Still correct so far?
5. going from 2 to 4 implies that it's okay for the player typing -giveup to not be part of the game anymore (as when everyone types -giveup, the game will be over anyway, meaning no one will continue playing the game)
6.Going by simple logic, we now have found out that typing -giveup states that it's okay for the issuing player to not be part of the game anymore (as when everyone ...). Interestingly, if one gets kicked, he won't be part of the game anymore, which is the same as he/she intended by typing -giveup.
7. If you're still following, in laymen terms we're now at "player types -giveup = player is okay with not being part of the game anymore", and "player being kicked = not being part of the game anymore". Simple logic now dictates "player types -giveup = player is okay with being kicked".
Now the question is: In which of these logic steps do you see an error?
---
P.S: As I already said in my first post, I know that we're all only humans and no one is free of error, so this is not being fueled by hatred or anything like that, just an intend to correct what I think was an error which happened in the heat of the moment (eSVau banning me without ban request).
Getting used to the Sand everywhere. At least it brings us map updates.
2013-07-30, 02:50:45 (This post was last modified: 2013-07-30, 02:54:52 by Prog.)
It is invalid because it neglects the difference of a normal loss and a loss + kick penalty.
5. should really state "5. going from 2 to 4 implies that it's okay for the player typing -giveup to not be part of the game anymore under the condition of a loss after a completed game"
Hence the step from 5 to 6 is invalid and the whole argument colapses. A player who votes to giveup will still play normally, for otherwise he will risk penalty and (in some cases) a ban.
The situation is, as far as I see it, this: There is a rule (or better: guideline) that forbids "KICKING A TEAMPLAYER ON PURPOSE FOR PENALTY POINTS PUNISHMENT" (caps taken from the originial thread http://btanks.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=368) and there is a rule for the reverse of what has happend here "Even if your entire team doesn't accept surrender, don't get mad at them", which, while not stated explicitly, should also count for the current situation. Even if a teammates wants to surrender, don't get mad at them.
Regardless if you kick the player, or not, you will lose the game 99.999999%. A kick in such a situation is first and foremost unmannered, toxic behaviour and secondly can be read as a violation to these rules. What really sadens me is not that you want to get the ban removed (which would be no big of a deal, as it was a harsh decision), but that you think your action was perfectly fine - which it certainly was not.
2013-07-30, 10:49:11 (This post was last modified: 2013-07-30, 11:36:16 by griffin1987.)
(2013-07-30, 02:50:45)Prog Wrote: It is invalid because it neglects the difference of a normal loss and a loss + kick penalty.
5. should really state "5. going from 2 to 4 implies that it's okay for the player typing -giveup to not be part of the game anymore under the condition of a loss after a completed game"
Hence the step from 5 to 6 is invalid and the whole argument colapses. A player who votes to giveup will still play normally, for otherwise he will risk penalty and (in some cases) a ban.
The situation is, as far as I see it, this: There is a rule (or better: guideline) that forbids "KICKING A TEAMPLAYER ON PURPOSE FOR PENALTY POINTS PUNISHMENT" (caps taken from the originial thread http://btanks.net/forum/showthread.php?tid=368) and there is a rule for the reverse of what has happend here "Even if your entire team doesn't accept surrender, don't get mad at them", which, while not stated explicitly, should also count for the current situation. Even if a teammates wants to surrender, don't get mad at them.
Regardless if you kick the player, or not, you will lose the game 99.999999%. A kick in such a situation is first and foremost unmannered, toxic behaviour and secondly can be read as a violation to these rules. What really sadens me is not that you want to get the ban removed (which would be no big of a deal, as it was a harsh decision), but that you think your action was perfectly fine - which it certainly was not.
PS: I agree with Cobra 100%.
I never said that I kicked the player for penalty points punishment, whatever that should mean. Also, if we go by what you said:
1. Why did the 4 people gozo1985 requested to be banned (see link in original post) not get a ban? That's called double standards.
2. If we go by the post, why is there no ban request? No posted replay by eSVau? ... That's called abuse of power.
So even if we were to come to the agreement that what I did was not okay, then there is still the thing about 1.) and 2.), which should result in 1. an unban, as well as not being banned for what I did (in the law of most european countries you're not allowed to get someone in (the same level of) court again for something if a) it was decided that he's not guilty or b) there was an error in processing before, and both of those rules have very valid reasons) and 2. an apology by eSVau for 2.) (and hopefully also the league admins talking to each other more to reduce the likelyhood of a such a thing - different league admins judging differently - happening in the future)
--
ad your comment to 5. : The game was completed and lost, so this still holds true. Also in the thread linked there is "NO REPEATING IDIOT BEHAVIOR" which could be applied here as well if you want to go by an official list - because if you look at the replay, the difference in gameplay, and the fact that trahtorist has been playing for more than 2 years now _at least_ (I looked up his username on the league boards, but I can't look into qualify games or other bot stats, so he could as well be on the game for far longer), then what he did could be taken as such. Or TEAM SABOTAGE. Or REPEATED FEEDING ON PURPOSE. Already 3 reasons from the same post which could be applied, depending on perspective.
--
P.S.: If you as league admins commit to in the future ban people who kick others because they don't give up, and eSVau unbans me and apologizes for the stated points, then I will be really willing to end this discussion and apologize myself for what I did.
Just found this btw:
warrior_cobra posting about eSVau abusing his power by banning some player without a ban request. ...
Actually,
Forget the PS. I'm not going down to that level. And just so there aren't additional misunderstandings: the points above I picked from TKFs post are only examples again, as I stated before, that I don't support kicking someone for playing badly.
Trahtorist: I'm sorry for kicking you. It was unjust, and you were just a very unfortunate collateral damage of which was a long chain of events (and many, many more - hundredths if not more - other times other people giving up, sometimes already 5 minutes into the game). Really, sorry.
Dear league admins, exc. eSVau: As always, thanks for your hard work, and sorry for the additional work I bring you with this topic. You can just keep this account of me banned if you so wish.
Dear eSVau: I think you make the other league admins look really bad by repeatedly (see linked post above) abusing your power and introducing double standards. I don't think they deserve that. But I don't have the power or will to judge you in any way, so I will just end it here with my appology to trahtorist.
In the end I hope this thread at least made some of you think again about things like the -giveup command or the kick system, both for which I have posted several threads to make them better (in every thread there is at least one suggestion which would've prevented this kick, which is the need for a vote of the enemy team).
Best Regards
Getting used to the Sand everywhere. At least it brings us map updates.
2013-07-30, 12:11:35 (This post was last modified: 2013-07-30, 12:12:17 by eSVau.)
Maybe i simple should take the whole fucking league down and delete months of MY work and effort
Marvin Wrote:The first ten million years were the worst and the second ten million years, they were the worst too. The third ten million years I didn't enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of a decline
2013-07-30, 12:57:37 (This post was last modified: 2013-07-30, 13:18:07 by stibi-.)
Dear eSVau: I think you make the other league admins look really bad by repeatedly (see linked post above) abusing your power and introducing double standards. I don't think they deserve that. But I don't have the power or will to judge you in any way, so I will just end it here with my appology to trahtorist.
i barly have time atm so i won't write much about it
--> probably i was wrong by disapproving the mentioned ban request ...
the league admins ban "all the time" without a ban request if they/we meet fools in the game we play
i doubt we have a democracy. you might ask us to review a banrequest but it sure won't help if you denunciate a ban
13) i will stop league until griffin is unbanned (if you want you can ban me too!!!!!!)
oh come on ... [insert any random bitch please gif]
(2013-07-30, 12:11:35)eSVau Wrote: Maybe i simple should take the whole fucking league down and delete months of MY work and effort
"Barking dogs never bite" as they say. I think most people know that you put your effort into all of this without any kind of payment (but don't get me started on commenting how much work it really is to set up a ready made forum with a ready made template + some bots where you don't have any work + some listing of a sql database + a static website with some little script outputting bot games ...). Still, no reason to start threatening your community. And I also think that the league admins - you included - actually do this all because you like it - or at least I would hope so.
But if you really want to take the league down, I'll just start my own bots again so people have a place to play. I don't really care about the league, and I'm sure many others don't, and they're just on the bots because they want to have fun playing btanks. And I hope you also still have fun playing btanks.
Getting used to the Sand everywhere. At least it brings us map updates.
